analog 102200

i can't find the little tab on the dreamweaver programme that allows me to change the font and the font size and making tables and all that jazz. i pressde every button i could think of to make it appear....so i am just gonna put this anagram up like this for now...and when i figure out how 2 get that thing back i need...i'll make this anagram more pretty. i just wanna get this anagram up 'cause it's so damn big. and i need to get it up so i can move on and take a bath and get outside for a walk and stuff...
and i have a huge manifesto building up in me from all this wild conversation/debate/fiasco hell that went on when i asked the simple question of " if i make this thing would any of u be interested? what do u think of this?"
well, anacam's anarchy, jennicam's peeping moe forum and the newsgroup alt.fan.jennicam completely exploded with support and also vile hatred towards me. it's actually still going as i am making this anagram....the last smoldering bits...

Tuesday, October 17th, 2000

Time Event
5:19p ok, the realtor has talked me down to the 4th floor for 2,070 square feet which is 870 more square feet than my apartment. it's 360 bucks. i have 2 put down 5,000 ( of refundable money if i don't get it ) to have first dibs at buying it. this will hold it until march 1st where then on that day i have to prove i can buy it and also put down another 5,000.

i have 4,000 in the bank so i am trying 2 find a way to get 1,000 more by thursday at 11:30am.
eeek.
( UPDATE: ah, jason came up with a 1,000 after a bit of fanangling. so i have the 5,000 2 give the guy in thursday :)
and btw, that 5,000 is 100% refundable, so it's not a gamble.)

i still don't know anything about what the association fee is or taxes or insurance. if i don't get this place, then at least i will have learned a lot about how 2 buy a house.

so jason wants to go in on it with me. so that's 180,000 a piece. he can most likley get a loan for that because he has good credit and a good job and he has lots of credit cards and a car.

i , on the other hand have no credit and a very weird job that is difficult for most people to understand. SO...

i am going to TRY to raise 180,000 in cash! i have NO idea if this will work at all. and this isn't a totally formulated thing yet , but what do u think of this:

for the cost of 1,000 i can offer that i will for i year give u:

EVERY MONTH:

1 unique polaroid a month taken by me.
1 song never before released anywhere on cd made on my 4 track signed numbered in a limited edition of 1,000
1 "anagram magazine" which will be the best of the anagrams for that month printed out and bound signed by me and numbered in a limited edition of 1000.
and 1 two hour vhs tape of me talking about what i'm thinking about that moment and what's going on in my life, giving a tour of my aprtment or whatever strikes me as interesting that month...signed and numbered in a limited edition of 1,000.
and at the end of that year perhaps either a unique drawing doodle/drawing by me, or maybe a small painting or perhaps a stuffed animal that i made, signed and numbered in a limited edition of 1,000.

what do u think of this?

here is one of my replies 2 one of the SIXTY replies i received here:http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=614124

and here are the ones i've saved because i think it's very interesting how fucked we are about money and value even more than sex:

Tuesday, October 17th, 2000

i still don't know anything about what the association fee is or taxes or insurance. if i don't get this place, then at least i will have learned a lot about how 2 buy a house.

so jason wants to go in on it with me. so that's 180,000 a piece. he can most likley get a loan for that because he has good credit and a good job and he has lots of credit cards and a car.

i , on the other hand have no credit and a very weird job that is difficult for most people to understand. SO...

i am going to TRY to raise 180,000 in cash! i have NO idea if this will work at all. and this isn't a totally formulated thing yet , but what do u think of this:

for the cost of 1,000 i can offer that i will for i year give u:

EVERY MONTH:

what do u think of this?

-----------------------
and here is all that was written from that entry so far:

(Anonymous)
2000-10-17 15:45
Ha. Good luck. You haven't even done those un-valentines yet, have you? What's the guarantee?

ana
2000-10-17 16:02
ya, and the unvalentine's are done for free. i am paying the entire expense. they are taking long because i am making each one very special.

neko
2000-10-17 16:16
i think anything is possible. especiallie for you. :) and one way or another, that house will be yours. u do deserve it!

i have my heart set on one too..:) it's a japanese style house.. with a japanese garden..lots of glass and sliding doors..a wine cellar..it sounds gorgeous! my dream is to live in japan i think.. :) or maybe in the mountains

ANA! Crap
(Anonymous)
2000-10-17 16:28
Hi Ana-
Hon, i wanted to inform you something that I heard on the radio and think you should know. You know that famous lady, Anna Nicole Smith? Well she is doing something similar to you, having a cam and calling it the anacam too! She is charging men to view it and I thought you wanted to know that she has the same idea that you have already done... hmmm take care.
Jaimie, NJ

Re: ANA! Crap
blonnie
2000-10-17 18:31
http://www.annanicole.com/

My AnnaCam so I can go LIVE Plus, lots more online fun and games between me and you…. see ya!
wow, that is kinda friggin pissy. i wonder ana, do you have that name trademarked? i wonder if the trademark would matter since she has 2 -n-'s instead of one.
-blonnie-
p.s. *note to above poster* she -also- charges women to view it as well :p

Re: ANA! Crap
shagg
2000-10-17 19:22
jesus people.. that's Anna Nicole Smith's name, of course she can use annanicole.com
she's been doing movies to for years.. so she's also well known..

Re: ANA! Crap
blonnie
2000-10-17 19:48
-hello- the problem is NOT with annanicole.com the problem is with "annacam" which has been publicized as being ANA VOOG'S for quite some time. in yahoo mags, on msnbc's cam explosions..at award shows - in MANY, MANY events/advertisements..etc.. it is not the annanicole.com thing.
-
just calling it annacam on annanicole.com isn't that bad either (i suppose)..but i just went to annacam.com & someone has apparently bought that site..we'll wait & see what will be put up there..then the matter would expand.

-blonnie-

Re: ANA! Crap
roachspray
2000-10-17 18:46
Maybe you could just sue Anna Nicole Smith for trademark infringement! That oughtta be worth a couple hundred grand from her, anyway.

I dunno, Ana... A grand is a PILE of money. (Not that your projects aren't worth it! Really - but less might make you more, if you get what I mean)

Unless your credit record is total crap, getting together that much cash is probably not necessary, either. You are, essentially, self-employed. You do have verifiable income: they'll want to see that, as well as some indication of how stable it is and see whether it's increasing, decreasing, or staying the same over time.

You have another option, though... I hate to mention it, because it sorta makes you a slave to your art, rather than how we probably all want it to be, the other way around, that our art serves us in some way. But you might even be able to have the house funded as a business loan: it is not merely your domicile, or your art studio, it is also your gallery, your broadcast studio, your business.

I don't know if they'd go for $360K for that - but it's WELL worth talking to someone about, before you go too far down one path to turn back. The drawback, of course, lies in being your own slave forever.

House-hunting makes me dreamy, too. And webcamming a nice house could be interesting, especially with a budget to do it with... There's this nifty little camera made (mainly for security purposes) that has a network connection on the back - It's basically a self-contained webserver with webcam, all in one VERY TINY package: see http://www.axis.com about it... It's the coolest thing!

Re: your buying of a bigger place
(Anonymous)
2000-10-17 16:30
go for it...if the five grand is refundable than you really have nothing to lose...as far as your idea for rasing $180,000 asking a thousad dollars a head from people could prove to be a bit of problem...that is if they are like my self a poor broke ass college student...who would find it hard to give a thousand let alone have in possesion a thousand...thats is the only problem that I see with you idea...what you offer for that thousand is quite worth while however...so all in all go for it...

Go for it ANA!
(Anonymous)
2000-10-17 16:45
But, let me tell you, people arent going to pay $1,000 for it and what you have to offer!!!! i think you'll get a good giggle out of that, along with everyone else. However, maybe you could "work" your a$$ off and sell some things on ebay, up your monthly fees(sorry guys!) Advertise(for a limited period of time until your goal is close to met)or save every damn penny you pull in and that takes alot of *discipline*!!!!! Or ALL of the above! I still think you can get a loan for a decent amount if your taxes are up to par(records) which I'm sure they are. Coming up with $180,000 by date mentioned is really gonna be hard if not impossible.....but then you ARE Ana!
Good luck but dont bite off more than you can nibble on

ana's super house
pidge
2000-10-17 17:01
someone mentioned this idea before... what if some of the nice people who check out ana's website alot send a few bucks each? like $10?? it's only a bit, a small price to pay for all the super work ana chooses to share with everyone FOR FREE. will anyone really miss $10 in the long run? but if she needs it by thursday, that does pose a time issue. well, just a thought. ;)

Lookin' for some kickass "chedder"?
(Anonymous)
2000-10-17 17:20
You say you need $150,000 to get the spread you want. Well if your looking to raise that kind of "chedder" you need to run for office and get bocoup "campaign contributions" from the special interests because I really doubt that there are 180 anafans with $1000 to hand out even for the package you have to offer.
However if you dropped the package price to a reasonable price point you might do a decent volume trade

blonnie
2000-10-17 18:23
very good idea ana, & i'm sure you'll get atleast get some people to give you the money. good luck babe :) i would certainly help you if i could..but i myself & bone dry of money. i get just enough to pay every monthly bill that i aquire..i haven't even been to the orthodontist in a month :(
-
anywayz, you should also do that idea you had of like..printing pics out..start selling some merchandise babe! :) i looooved that idea. i really wanted to buy one & put it in kens shop. :)

-blonnie-
*wanted to leave a positive note amongst many of the negative ones*

ART
bambulu
2000-10-17 18:50
When that, just for the money comes in, we loose, smell like bullshit, hollow.
Looks like a supermarket list, come on, Artist. Do not treat your art this way.

bambulu

Re: ART
tequie
2000-10-17 19:55
Is art any less worthy if it is commissioned? Is a starving artist better than one that is wealthy? Hey, I don't know, but it seems that once someone was commissioned to paint some ceiling somewhere and that is still considered to be art.

Re: ART
blonnie
2000-10-17 20:10
charicature artists on the streets of new orleans.. painters on the streets in paris..all need the money.

etc..etc..etc..

you can love art..& still not be wealthy enough to live unless you -sell- something & why not sell something you love & love to do?...

or are we stuck in a world were everyone should be forced to live a miserable life simply because they're -supposed- to work in that cubicle.. why not do something you love?

Re: ART
bambulu
2000-10-17 20:41
The answer is:
Just do what you Love to do. with money or without..

Re: ART
bambulu
2000-10-17 20:19
Art is everywhere, starving vatican inside each mind and being, but how intense and close to the
center, differs, all of you know what i'm talking about, so, if Ms Voog, start to doing that, there
will be so much to do that will sound like a factory. Maybe turns into very very nice thing, Maybe.
There's art in business too.

Re: ART
tequie
2000-10-17 20:43
Art is everywhere. This is true. It is in the clouds and on the streets. We drive art, and we wear art. There is very fine art that we never pay a cent for, but the last time I tried to get one of Leroy's prints I had to pay.
Cam art, although this is not all that Ana does, is fleeting. We view and we move on. We enjoy the moment coupled with her Analanguage journal. Ana is the only one to decide how she should be compensated for her art, whatever it is. The "art" belongs to her she can give it away or she can sell it. She can barter it. She can destroy it. Whatever she does it is still art.
hey, I really don't know anything, I just want Ana to be happy and have what she perceives that she needs to continue with her...art.

The Bighouse
carlcarl
2000-10-17 20:45
Ana,

I would suggest setting your sights a bit lower. I'm glad that you a)think big and b)are opening this up for comment and suggestion.

Don't mistake honesty for being mean. The concept is good, but the amount is too high. Perhaps you can raise your half of the down payment instead of half of the price of the house. 5 percent of $360,000 is $18,000. This would make your half $9,000 (does jason have the $$ for his half of this?).

Your plan needed 180 people to 'buy in'. If you could get that many people to 'buy in' to your down payment, they would only need $50 each. Now that is a sum which many of your fans could deal with.

I know your dream would have had you unencumbered by a mortgage, but ask yourself if this house is worth it. If the answer is no, then it may not be the right move for you anyway.

I leave it to you (or others to suggest) what you give the $50 contributors.

I think this plan has a chance. As for the mortgage, you can show your tax return for the last couple of years. That would be the only proof of income that a mortgage company is likely to consider.

You've got to get a good idea of how much it will cost a month. The real estate people should be able to help with this. There are a buch of things to figure in (taxes, insurances-2 kinds, interest, closing costs, loan rate, loan points) along with the other things like association fees. The realtors can also help estimate utility bills. Big houses cost alot more to heat and cool. Don't forget that there are many other things to buy and do: yard work (lawn mower), repairs, etc.

Still not trying to sound negative, you just need to know these things are coming. One final (I promise) thing. You said the $5,000 was not a risk. If you give them the money, you may only get it back if they can't make the deal work. If you decide not to, or that you can't aford it, you may lose the whole thing.

Leaping can be great fun. Please look before you do so.

Good Luck!!!

Carl

Good luck. I'm rooting for you.

Re: The Bighouse
fetik3
2000-10-18 05:25
Ana was given a time line, and there is a certain date, upon which the financing has to be proven to them, or else the $5000 is refunded. So that part isn't really a risk.

Re: The Bighouse
btripp
2000-10-18 08:53
Yes ... it's very important to check out what your "association fees" are ... and to see the history of those fees. You don't want to be in a building that lets everything slide so that suddenly you're having to pay a significant chunk of a new elevator system, for example! Our "assessment" here is nearly $1,000.00 per month, which is (obviously) quite high, but the building has EVERYTHING on a schedule, so not only does this cover our water, heat, trash, security, basic cable, and on-going building services, but it also covers re-decorating the hallways ever 5 years or so and periodic updating of systems like the elevators, etc.

- Brendan

Ana , your "Art" is shit
trollboy
2000-10-17 21:23
Your just a wanna be artist ,because you think it's so avant garde. It's actually shit.

Re: Ana , your
zombiekiller
2000-10-17 21:51
Well old son, the purpose of art isn't to get people to like you , but to invoke an emotion. It's a successful piece of art, first if it is seen. And second, if it is powerful enough to get a reaction from the viewer. You've done both, therefore validating Ana's work, as art. It's just a shame you haven't the intelligence to properly communicate your feeling.

Now try putting that energy into bringing down corrupt polititions and corporations instead of these evil evil Cam-Girls.

art
ravenritings
2000-10-18 01:07
I think there are two main branches of art...

There's the shocking stuff that's there to strike at the heart of humanity, have us think about our society, our world we live in, our politics.. etc.

And there is commercial art... there to attract attention, seek approval and make loads of money..

Now lets see what happens if we try to do both..
striking at the heart of humanity for a sensation, thinking about seeking approval and making loads of money, making loads of politics and attracting attention to the world we live in..

a lil confusing maybe?

Re: art
zombiekiller
2000-10-18 06:13
Don't get me wrong, all artists are in it for the money and recognition too... I think it was Burroughs that said he never net a real artist that WASN'T doing it for the money.

But I think you're definition of commercial art is a little off. The commercial artist has a job. You don't just create a piece of work for Nike, then bring it to them asking for money. A commercial artist has a commission (in one way or another) to complete a piece for someone elses purpose. Sure they might put a lot of themselves into the piece, and sure it's art, but it's not the same as being an artist for a living.

An artist creates for themselves. A piece is created for personal satisfaction and based on the artists own feelings. Now if the artist happens to make a living selling their works, then more power too them, they're one of the lucky ones. However, I think if Ana didn't make any money at all, she'd still do this (maybe not to such an extent)because she loves it.

Re: Ana , your
shag
2000-10-18 19:38
I dont actually enjoy Picasso's or Georgia O'Keefe's work, but it doesnt mean it's , as you so intellectually say..."shit". You don't have an appreciation for art so maybe you should take your criticism where it doesnt fall on deaf ears and critique something you know about or have a passion for. And take some courses in grammar, spelling and manners while your at it.

zombiekiller
2000-10-17 21:57
I'm with some of these folks. It's a good idea, but not many people have a grand to drop like that.

If everything's going to be in a run of 1,000, then you only have to sell them for 200 bucks to make your goal. (assuming you sold them all) In any case, a thousand dollars is tooooo much. Back to the drawing board I think.

ragemonkey
2000-10-17 22:26
wow 180 large, and thats just half! i'm hoping to be approved by some miracle for a $19k lot to build a house. you got time to reconsider before that second payment. lay off the cocktail of prescription pills a while before signing.

Re: prescription pills
stacy
2000-10-18 13:48
it is very, very, very insulting to those of us who have to take medication on a daily basis when people say things like "lay off the cocktail of prescription pills." anxiety and depression are REAL illnesses, just as much as diabetes or cancer or anything else. personally, i can take drugs and function and work and make a living and enjoy my life, or i can get so manic i take on ten projects at once and stay awake for a week straight and then crash so hard i have to be hospitalized. given those choices, that "cocktail" sounds pretty good.

please don't put psychiatric medication in the same category as street drugs...please don't belittle what a traumatic thing it is to have to take medication so you can leave your house. it's as real as any material object. think about the effects of what you're saying, please.

Re: prescription pills
ana
2000-10-18 16:57
tahnk u stacy for saying this. i guess we just have 2 say this over and over..and someday we will move out of the dark ages!

Re: prescription pills
algavore
2000-10-18 20:11
Metadiddos.

And - there are quite possibly even better brain tweakers:
Do a search for (and/or get a book on) the safe effective "nutriceuticals":
L 5 HTP
and especially
SAM-e
and to a somewhat lesser degree
St John's Wort (Hypericum)
*{:-> Patrick

Re: prescription pills
ragemonkey
2000-10-19 00:01
you took my comment too seriously i guess. i take zoloft for depression. what i was trying to get at was this condo is a major financial thing and not to rush into it...

verbminx
2000-10-17 22:26
I'm with everyone else in thinking that $1000 is too much. On top of that, I think that your time will probably be completely occupied by making these 1,000 copies of each thing each month, signed and numbered.

Dame Darcy sells her little dolls for $50 each. Make something small that you can make relatively quickly and sell for a decent markup.

& give up luxuries... like... I hate to say it, but your pretty pretty extensions, your mannequin habit (that's on hiatus anyways, right?), etc.

When the bank has made their decision, then you can figure out what extravagances to let back into your life. I think we all need at least little extravagances once in a while to get us through the day! :)

Re:
ana
2000-10-18 08:46
when i got my extensions and mannequins, these condos that i am looking at were not even a reality yet.

and i really doubt that the thousand bucks that i spent on all that is really going to make or break me getting this condo.

i AM thinking about things that i can pull off doing. of COURSE my time would be consumed in making all of those things...but it'd be WORTH it 'cause i'd have a condo!

i'm sure that dame darcy's dolls are not quick to make either. they are pretty detailed.

the reason i am thinking of going with LESS things available at a higher price than TONS of little stuff at a lower price is because:

i have over 6,000 people on my mailing list yet only 600 subscribe to ana2 (i am not saying that 600 is a low figure..i am just saying it's low when compared to 6,000)

meaning...most people i come across on the net are constantly complaining that they cannot afford even ten dollars to join ana2.

so why would they buy something else from me that is not very pricey? they don't even have ten dollars!

i was figuring that it would be much more likley a prospect to find a small group of individuals that have lots of money then lots of people with a bit of money who are willing to part with any of it.

so i thought...what huge amazing extravagant package could i come up with that would be worth 1,000?

so i came up with my plan...which i still think is a good one despite all the negativity that surrounds it here.

because i would be dedicating my entire life for one full year to create this huge amazing totally original limited edition thing...it is indeed worth 1,000 to ME. i would not make that for less.

however, if i don't get enough people interested in it ( and i DO have a few interested people now )...then i will change my strategy to selling cheaper things sold over a longer period of time...so that if another place should i ever come along i would consider buying, i would be more prepared.

i didn't plan on finding this condo that i love so much. a week ago it was simply just another abandoned building.

u can't knock me for trying as hard as i can to get this thing.

and if i don't get it..well then i have gained a lot of knowledge about what goes onto buying a home, and i will have lost nothing

condos
mintfreak
2000-10-18 09:54
im lookin for a condo in the dakota county area
this is a condo you are lookin at and its almost 400,000?
maybe u should buy a house in a nice neighborhood so you will have something more than just an apt
the condo's ive been lookin at are 70 grand, and i even feel *that* is to much,,,,,,,for an apt

Oh Ana
shag
2000-10-18 10:54
I know that you feel what you are offering in return is substantial....but babe....YOU NEVER FINISH ANYTHING YOU START!
Signed and numbered???? You need to get your ego in check/balance, but that seems to be the very least of your worries.
I am not a mean person, I am just very practical and straightforward, I like you personally, but your reality really is, or at least to me, seems to be debunk. I wish you well I really do, and I'll leave it at that!

Re: Oh Ana
ana
2000-10-18 12:47
so all 5 of my albums are unfinished? and all my paintings? and all my writings? and all my anagrams and all my photography, and all my sewing, and all my DEEDS and everything i have ever done, and anacam that has been going for 3 years...is unifinshed? LOL!

Re: Oh Shag
shag
2000-10-18 19:56
Nuff said. Who am I to put you or anyone else down?! Who am I to try to cower YOU or anyone else, Just because we are different personalities. Shame on me. Thanks Ana, for being you and inspiring me to be true to who I really am.

Re: Oh Shag
ana
2000-10-18 22:11
are u being sarcastic, or was that actually sincere?

$ 180,000
thesupreme
2000-10-18 05:01
Dear ana,
I certainly do not want to bring any negativity here, but I may be able to help save you some serious trouble. If you raise $ 180,000 you will need to pay taxes on that money, especialy if you do it in 1 year. Your only way to avoid the taxes would be to prove to the IRS that the money is going to be used on a business expense. This would probably very be difficult since the house you will be buying with it does not play any key part in your business. A gallery for your artwork maybe??....That would be a tough one. The IRS looks very a hard at anyone who can generate large sums of money in a hurry. The mindset is...how do we get in on it...Have they done it before and not claimed it?...can they do it again if we determine they owe us...etc. ( I personaly know two accountants who know the IRS system well)
The next obstacle is Jason, if he goes in on it, and you try to claim the house as a business expense, why would someone who is not a part of the business want to buy half a house?? We understand, but the IRS looks at everything through numbers and intentions. You may save yourself some serious heartache if you talk to an accountant first.
I am no accountant, and am not qualified to advise on taxes or tax laws, but I am self employed, and have learned a lot about this sort thing in the last 13 years.
Good luck

Re: $ 180,000
fetik3
2000-10-18 05:43
(Rephrasing what I wrote previously)

We do have an accountant, and this will definitely be an issue for him to advise us on. But it seems to me, that having a "home office" is very common, and the fact of the matter is that Ana's home *is* the place of business. It's where she broadcasts from, creates her art, etc etc...

I'm not an accountant either, so ultimately I don't know. But I *think* that having a house, splitting it up, and using half of it to work out of (since she does, and it is provable) is a legit business expense.

But what do I know :)

Re: $ 180,000
btripp
2000-10-18 08:58
Hey, I know!

You're not buying a condo ... you're buying a "WEBCAST STUDIO" and "PERFORMANCE ART GALLERY"!!!

Wheeeee!

- Brendan

Re: $ 180,000
ana
2000-10-18 09:46
yes! :)

Re: $ 180,000
thesupreme
2000-10-18 16:42
My appologies for making you have to re-iterate a previous statement.
I should have been more clear on my thinking, (I am a terrible writer) I wonder how the IRS will view the camgirl/artist occupation, as well as what each of these occupations need for their business. I truly beleive that ana has a very viable business. She is a very entertaining artist. My point actually was, How the taxe laws will view the house as being integral to the art/camgirl situation. The webcams are fairly new, in other words, if it came down to having to deal with the IRS, will the auditor be a young person who is in touch with todays technology and trends, and say "yes, I am familiar with webcams, and yes her life is part of her art, which is part of her business" or will it be someone who does not have a clue about computers or webcams, and thus just make an ignorant judgement, and say something like"whats a house got to do with a webcam..besides whats a webcam??"
In any case I really beleive that Ana's cam and art have a commercial value, and hope that it works out for both of you.
I am always watching new business trends to see what happens for them, and I will be watching this one too.(business is my life)
Keith

Spin Doctoring...
wolfey892
2000-10-18 11:19
I didn't realize this journal was censored. If I had known that I wouldn't have wasted my time saying how bad somebody should feel about asking complete strangers for money to buy a condo. What gives you the right to ask people for money, just because you'll "feel at peace". No matter where you live Ana, you'll never be at peace. This whole thing has shades of Jennicam and the carwash idea. "Oh look at me all bouncy!!! I've got this great idea, and it's only going to cost you a thousand bucks". Do you honestly think you're that much of a celebrity?, that people would do this for you? delusions of grandeur..

free your mind and your ass will follow
ana
2000-10-18 13:05
it's MY journal and i'll kick off assholes all i want. see it as a living room and u are pissing on my furniture. why would i keep u around?
u are just so full of hate. it must really suck to be u.

i see nothing wrong with making a product and then putting a price tag on it and see if anyone wants it. i'm not asking for money and then i would give nothing in return.

where is your brain???

yes, i DO think that i am worth that much. i create quality things. i see nothing wrong with being proud of my work and who i am. i will shine as bright as i want 2 and there is nothing u can do 2 stop that.

and yes, as a matter of fact i AM a minor celebrity. that's a fact. what that means is really nothing. it just means a lot of people have heard of me. but that is not the reason i put a price tag on the 1,000 art i would make...i would price it at that no matter how many people knew of me. because creating an entire album of music, 24 hours hours of interesting video, 12 magazines, 1,000 UNIQUE one of a kind photos a MONTH, which would be 12,000 photos IS worth 1,000 bucks to ME, it might not be to YOU. but i am NOT u, and u are NOT me. so why don't u just say nay 2 my expensive sofa offer because u can't afford it.

just because u can't afford it that doesn't mean that i should lower the price for u. do other stores u walk into lower their prices for u?

what the fuck?
what planet are u on?

and i know that writing all of this is just gonna spur u on, but don't worry i'm gonnna delete anything stupid u say.

i write this now for the silent people reading this who are too afraid to jump into this conversation for fear of being attacked.

i tell u... STAND UP for who u are! it's OK to name your OWN price. it's GRAND to have PRIDE! it's JOYFUL to recognize your own accomplishments!

don't let people like this get u down. don't let anyone ever try 2 squash your light.

when somebody like this says to u all mean, " just who do YOU think u are??"

stand up and say, "THIS... THIS is WHO I AM!"

let's hold hands and RISE together instead of just trying to smash others down. don't we all want to rise PAST this? this bitterness and hatred and fear?

*i* don't want to stand in that hole. let's scurry on out and run wildly and freely and irrationally in total joy just to be here right now on this gorgeous planet of ours :)

rant
elena
2000-10-18 13:40
I am in total agreement with you, Ana.

Who are WE to judge how much someone's work is worth? I mean, look at all the artists who sell ONE of their paintings for THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars!!!!!

We have been taught/trained/brainwashed by this culture to NOT place a high value on our time and energy.....It appears to me that this society wants us to be happy doing insanely strenuous physical labor for minimum wage.

It really freaks me out to read all these negative posts about cam girls - it appears to me that they are most often triggered by MONEY ISSUES. Is it because they are not female and can therefore not make money online? I just don't get it.

end of rant

Re: rant
stacy
2000-10-18 23:05
god, thank you for saying what i've been thinking all day!

i don't understand why people get SOOOOOO angry and defensive and weird about the whole camgirl phenomenon. it's really got me thinking now. i mean, sure, i've seen some really lame sites that are basically "look at me run around in my cute lacy bra" or whatever, but OBVIOUSLY ana's site is much different. i mean...come on. it would take a moron not to see that there is some CONTENT there as opposed to some kind of need-to-be-a-celebrity thing. why isn't this art? why shouldn't it be? of course it is! in fact, i'm getting really bored with static art in galleries because i see so much more potential on the web. i do think a lot of it boils down to economics...if "anyone can do it" (i.e. put up a website, as opposed to being deemed "valid enough" to get into the traditional gallery structure) everything suddenly becomes all black and white and This is Art and This isn't. AARRRGGGHHHH!!!!

i think what's depressing me most is what i see as a total lack of aesthetics or comprehension or ability to think past a knee-jerk, sophomoric response. i mean, i've been really worked up about this all day. i guess i just need to get over it.

Re: free your mind and your ass will follow
jadenkun
2000-10-18 18:08
*gets out some pom-poms and starts chanting*
AN-A!! AN-A!! AN-A!!!

Re: free your mind and your ass will follow
algavore
2000-10-18 20:21
When good people prosper - everybody wins.

Automatically.

Bravo.

Say what??????
dew
2000-10-18 12:02
I've read the request, read the responses.....
Take a clue from the Clue bag.

On that note, good luck.

Well, hmmm.....
agoddard
2000-10-18 12:52
Ana,
With the most well meaning of intentions, I have to inform you that I think that maybe you ought to rethink your options. I was in the house buying market a few months ago, and even the nice ones cost much less than what you are talking about paying. Take a look at some other options before you become emotionally attached to this one. Buying a home is like buying a new chair (or finding a new mate), you don't just buy the first chair that you sit in, sit in as many as you are comfortable with and then make a descision.

just a thought.
opiata
2000-10-18 17:16
i am by no means criticizing here, because over time i have become addicted to your site due to your unique life/art. (by the way, i am honestly too poor for your ana2 fee, so i don't have too much room to talk) but it seems you are, out of a sort of desperation, trying to raise this money. i am wondering how valid and how fulfilling art wrought out of desperation and need for cold hard cash will be. there is nothing wrong with selling art for money, it is what every person does every day they work (i believe many things can be artwork); rather, i think that having to produce "unique" photos, etc on a schedule and under a sort of contract at such a rate might destroy part of that beauty that is you. the worst thing you could do would be to burn yourself out for this one, material thing, even if it is the best condo that ever was.

just thinking.

Re: just a thought.
ana
2000-10-18 18:40
i am actually energized by the idea of my project.

i've made tons of art out of desparation...desparate to communicate, desparate to get out of poverty. desparation is as valid a reason 2 create art as any other thing.

would u rather i play by the starving tortured artist myth and create out of pain, despair, and depression?

what is so bad with creating a joyful thing to buy a house?

would u like me to drink myself 2 death and create from that? would that be more to your liking?

Re: just a thought.
opiata
2000-10-18 21:55
whew! i meant nothing negative at all by what i said, really more thoughts on the issue. i really didn't expect such a defensive reply, well actually none at all. but i can understand how anything would seem like an attack after reading what people have posted. i'm glad that you are energized by the thought of your project, that is really what matters most. i didn't say that desperation CANNOT yield art, it surely can. look at examples of amazing artists -- writers like dosteovsky for example -- who were driven by there desperation. i also don't know what you mean about the "starving tortured artist", "pain, despair, and depression", and drinking yourself to death. well, i understand what you mean, but not why it is relevant to what i posted. i don't want ANY of those things for you. and NO they would not be more to my liking. i'm not sure why you got that impression, because as i said, i didn't mean to criticize. i am sorry if it seemed i did. my only thought was, and i mean it as a compliment in high regards, that sometimes when something is so contractual, so necessary, the joy of that art for YOURSELF and not for others necessarily, could be lost. i am not saying that you are like me in any way, because no two people will interpret and live through situations in the same way. but from my personal past, my love of my art (singing) was really hurt when i went professional and was doing it every day, no longer because i woke up and just wanted to do it, but because i had signed the contract, sealed the deal. it put me through college, but something was lost too. i don't know if i regret it entirely, because something important (like your condo) was gained. yes, art done for money is STILL art

Some ideas...
virgogirl
2000-10-18 19:28
GOd, I totally can commiserate about your house lust, i get so easily excited about cool buildings, i just love them! Maybe you will be on HGTV's Extreme homes one day! :)

A few questions/thoughts: Have you thought about turning this into a media thing in order to promote your cause? Actually, have you ever had a publicist? I knew one once when i was a memeber of a networking group and it's pretty cool what they can do for you. You probably know all about it though...

Just out of curiosity, have you ever conisdered living someplace in the middle of nowhere (well, maybe not the MIDDLE of nowhere...) where you could build a cool house or in an old building of some sort on the cheap? There are also these totally cool things called Clearspan buildings which are these steel arches you pretty much snap together in a matter of days on a foundation and they are VERY inexpensive, like literally 8K for a very large one! Just do a search on Yahoo on "steel buildings" adn there will be enough to make you dizzy.I have already planned an entire breakaway nation with those things!

Anyhow, take care, goodluck!

vg

universehere'syou2
algavore
2000-10-18 19:50
Ana,

Have you ever heard of Mathew Lesko?
He is that intentionally dweeby guy you may have seen on TV wearing a suit covered with dollar signs and a bow tie.
Anyway - he has written a number of books on Free Money available from the US (and state / local) govts.
Many are grants, some are easy loans.
Often they are designated for women, artists, people starting a small business, Morovians named Lucas and so on. Anything you can think of practically. (No kidding here.)
Go to a good Barnes & Nobel and check out the Reference Section.
(Grab a Starbucks and bring a notepad.)
I'm sure there is money available for opening a "studio" etc.
Friends of Ana - if you see the book - do you see any categories that could apply for her?
~ Patrick

universehere'you3
algavore
2000-10-18 20:03
Another idea for raising the money Ana:

1. Set up a commercial page to market your CDs and Art work.

2. Set up an Affiliate Program. It might work like this: Friends of Ana can sign on as Affiliates from your commercial page - they would receive a commission for referring your page - maybe by including a banner from your page on theirs and so on.

Amazon books does this for instance.

So that it doesn't cost you to do this - you could pay Referring Affiliates with One Month's membership in anacam2 for each referred sale.

(In addition - many "Affiliates" who receive the free month for referring a CD or Artwork customer - might become regular subscribers to anacam2)

You have a big network of people who like you and would want to support you - create some kind of structure for them to do it.

~ Patrick

when i got my extensions and mannequins, these condos that i am looking at were not even a reality yet. and i really doubt that the thousand bucks that i spent on all that is really going to make or break me getting this condo. i AM thinking about things that i can pull off doing. of COURSE my time would be consumed in making all of those things...but it'd be WORTH it 'cause i'd have a condo! i'm sure that dame darcy's dolls are not quick to make either. they are pretty detailed. the reason i am thinking of going with LESS things available at a higher price than TONS of little stuff at a lower price is because: i have over 6,000 people on my mailing list yet only 600 subscribe to ana2 (i am not saying that 600 is a low figure..i am just saying it's low when compared to 6,000) meaning...most people i come across on the net are constantly complaining that they cannot afford even ten dollars to join ana2. so why would they buy something else from me that is not very pricey? they don't even have ten dollars! i was figuring that it would be much more likley a prospect to find a small group of individuals that have lots of money then lots of people with a bit of money who are willing to part with any of it. so i thought...what huge amazing extravagant package could i come up with that would be worth 1,000? so i came up with my plan...which i still think is a good one despite all the negativity that surrounds it here. because i would be dedicating my entire life for one full year to create this huge amazing totally original limited edition thing...it is indeed worth 1,000 to ME. i would not make that for less. however, if i don't get enough people interested in it ( and i DO have a few interested people now )...then i will change my strategy to selling cheaper things sold over a longer period of time...so that if another place should i ever come along i would consider buying, i would be more prepared. i didn't plan on finding this condo that i love so much. a week ago it was simply just another abandoned building. u can't knock me for trying as hard as i can to get this thing. and if i don't get it..well then i have gained a lot of knowledge about what goes onto buying a home, and i will have lost nothing

Wednesday, October 18th, 2000

Time Event
1:40a once again i am way 2 tired 2 drag the cam in the bedroom.
and i must crash in a big way now
see ya in the morning :)
(1 Comment | Comment on this)
8:01a i have a friggin cold again! i am so pissed! :(
this is ridiculous! woke up, can't breathe, i'm taking some alkaseltzer cold medicine
then i'm going back 2 bed.
(3 Comments | Comment on this)
3:33p no fair! it's 70 degrees outside and positively gorgeous with the last of the golden leaves hanging on....
*cry*

i want to go outside for a long walk but i don't want that to make my cold worse. augh.

*thinking thinking thinking*

and my face is all broken out too and i'm supposed to get my period any second heree.

no fun.

i need a hat with a veil and a good walking stick to hold me steady. i wanna go outa nd explore!

but i'm dizzy as fuk from cold medicine.

i've been working on unvalentine's and watching vh1 and the comedy channel

i am almost done putting in snippets from my hair extensions in all the envelopes!

then the next step will be to fill each envelope with glitter! ot's gonna be a gorgeous glitter bed mess!

it's still not 2 late 2 receive your unvalentine....if u are a member of ana2 send me your username and password as proof and let me know what snail mail addy u want your unvalentiine 2 be sent 2!
(7 Comments | Comment on this)
6:48p i scubbed and scrubbed and scrubbed in the tub. tryting 2 exfoliate everything. i want 2 be beyond squeaky clean cause i feel so yucky
i took some really really cool polaroid pictures today. i am getting so many , it's gonna be a bitch 2 scan them all.

once i'm done with the big pile of polaroid film that i received, i'm gonna sort through it and figure out what 5 pictures 2 send everybody who sent me the film. yay :)

Thursday, October 19th, 2000

Time Event
12:52a remember when i had a cold a few months ago just like this one and i couldn't not get my nose unclogged so i could breathe? and then scott bateman and someone else said that if u snort some salt water, it'll clear it right up?
well, snorting things makes me uncomfortable...i don't want it 2 feel like when u get water up your nose sometimes by accident when swimming

anyway...finally now i was at my wits end trying 2breathe and i am so so tired but couldn't fall asleep cause i couldn't breathe. so i made a glass of salt water then i put blankets in a pile, and laid down on them on my back with my head doing into a decline. then ii put a cotton swab into the water and slowly got some up my nose that way.
and it worked in seconds! it was the first time i could breathe all day!

ack..tho..u know as i'm typing this my nose is clogging right back up again :/ that was shortlived. *sigh*

but at least i know what i can do if i would like to breathe for ten minutes!

oh...and i figured out how much it would cost per day to receive my big extravagant package thing. $2.98!

y'know...even tho i'm sick..i'm in a really good mood :) and i'm even right in the thick f PMS. but i just feel "really super"
( now that reminds me of the southpark movie )

i wish i had an itty bitty spray bottle so i could spritz salt water into my nose as i watch tv.
never thought i'd ever say such an odd thing as that!
(7 Comments | Comment on this)
2:35a ok, this putting salt water up my nose 2 get it unclogged is not working for me now. it'll unclog it for a few minutes, that's all. and after the third try the salt was burning my throat.
so....dunno....

i hope 2 god i get SOME sleep tonight.
i'm meeting with the realtor at 11:30am, and i have 2 get 2 the bank and back before that...so i'm gonna get up at 9:30am...which is in 7 1/2 hours.
augh.

i've been watching this a&e thing on some serial killer named dr. wango
truly creepy

i'm trying 2 think of what else i have been watching..but i'm drawing a complete blank.
and there was a question i wanted 2 ask u, too...and i can't remember that either.

this cold is making me look like shit..and if i don't get any sleep tonight..i'm gonna be looking pretty strung out

i saw on the jennicam newsgroup that they are yelling about my proposal to make some cash, too.

but the thread was started as saying that i was asking people to give me 1,000 bucks for a house. it didn't mention that i am offering a huge year long art piece for a thousand bucks. so everyone on there just thinks i'm nuts.

i hate people
everything gets so easily misconstrued. i swear 95% of the population on this planet is just so damn stupid beyond my comprehension

pardon if i have more typos in this entry than normal. i am feeling very dizzy from the cold medicine. i gotta lay offa that 4 awhile...it's not doing me any good any way except that it helps pass the time. everything is so bouncy and rubbery

i wish i was at the gulf of mexico laying in warm sand :)

ok, here is a question...
what is the proper use of laying and lying. do i lay in the grass or do i lie in the grass?

i never could get that straight

another bleedingly obvious thing that i just didn't have a a grasp on for years has finally come to light.

i would write, " now that's a nother story"

and i'm like "nother"? that is not a word! but then what am i doing wrong...i know it belongs in my speech there.

we, triple platinum extra strength DUH to me , as everyone knows it's"
"now that's another story"

my train of thought has now disappeared. cold medicine is a lot like pot.
u know how if u smoke some pot...u forget what u wanted to say so quickly?
all these thoughts come racing in...but u can't hone into one single thing. and u can't remember what u were thinking about 1 thought ago.

i probably smoke pot about once a year. if i'm at a get together and someone starts passing around pot, most likely i say no, just because i am not a smoker, and when i take in that first hit...all i do is cough for 20 minutes in agony

the beet i planted is sprouting pretty leaves and the bulb of garlic i planted is also starting to sprout. it cool to plant veggies and see what they really look like. i mean..i have NO idea what a garlic plant looks like on the top.
so watching it unfold is very cool because each day is a surprise

time is jusst whizzing by here.
i'm typing since i have to focus on SOMETHING other than my stuffed up nose.

ok, here are some cool questions:

1) have u ever seen a ghost?

2) have u ever seen a ufo?

3) have u ever heard voices when there is no one around but u?

4) what's theweirdest/ quirkiest thing about yourself ?

5) what is the coolest music video you've ever seen?
(57 Comments | Comment on this)
2:53a i'm downloading napster so i can see what is all the hullabaloo with that :)
yay, i never got a chance 2 use that hullabaloo word until just now!
oh joy of joys :)
(3 Comments | Comment on this)
3:37a napster
i downloaded my first song off napster. i downloaded madonna's remix of her song "music" { dl linux club mix)
holy shit, this gonna be damn addictive
(9 Comments | Comment on this)
6:31a ok, i think i can sleep now. i can breathe a bit out of my nose.
then it's up in 3 hours!
but then maybe i'll just come home and sleep some more
thanks for keeping me company through the night :)
(1 Comment | Comment on this)
9:49a ok, im up now. 2 hours of sleep. i feel likemy eyes are bloodshot. i'm gonna do my errrands as fast as i can then head straight. soooooooo tiiiiiiiiiiiiiredddd.
(1 Comment | Comment on this)
4:10p i am so happy right now, it's ridiculous. i wish i could be like this all the time :)

here are 57 replies on that: http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=623678

Friday, October 20th, 2000

Time Event
12:25a yes, trolls of alt.fan.jennicam. i do read that newsgroup now and them. all the little planets that whirl and crash around (insert camgirl of choice) fascinate me.

i read almost all the newsgroups pertaining 2 anything 2 do with cams. this little microcosm of a world we've made here says about about where society is at today.
or how energy is flowing. or how one spark can ignite enough dynomite to hurt quite a lot of people. or one spark could lead 2 illuminating the paths for many.

there are so many things 2 illuminate:

worth, time, value, work, money...

these seem to be even stickier and messier areas to dare 2 peel apart than sex

here is something from alt.fan.jennicam bordering on rape:

Author: Gary W.

Hell, for $1000 bucks, Ana better be prepared to bend over -- and I don't mean to pick up my check!

---------------------

i would be lieing if i said these words do not hurt me. or all women, for that matter.

why is it that so many must bash down others to feel better?

i need to center myself again...i am getting there. each day a step

let's hold hands on the way there, ok? and can we stop at the store to get some snapple? rasberry iced tea :)

i'm listening to missing person's "destination unknown"

Current Music: Missing Persons - Destination Unknown
(48 Comments | Comment on this)
1:13a here is another disturbing theme that keeps repeating itself:

from alt.fan.jennicam

Randall Flagg (narcissistic@excite.com) writes:

"i like my artists starving. it keeps them real and gives them a sense of passion"

--------
it sounds like he is ordering some kentucky fried chicken!
(9 Comments | Comment on this)
2:43p my art, my way
THIS IS TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING RIDICULOUSLY MEAN TO ME ABOUT:
1) selling my art
2) wanting a house

ok, this is really getting out of hand

1) firstly...when i posted my idea...it was just that...an idea.
just kicking around some thoughts in my head, y'know?

2) secondly i am not asking for people to just send me 1,000 so that i can buy a condo.
i am asking them IF they would want to pay 1,000 for a year's worth of:
-----

()()()()()()() one entire album of new music from me, 12 songs. entirely new. and it would be a limited edition of 1,000 so it would be quite rare!
they would receive one new song a month from me for a year.

()()()()()()() i would make a magazine. YES, an entire magazine with glossy paper and all that and it would contain anagrams (pictures from my webcam and text to go along with that..journal entries, etc ), plus other things that no one else would ever see or get, also in a limited edition of 1,000. and they would get one a month from me for a year.

()()()()()()() then also they would get 24 hours worth of video from me. each month they would get a two hour video tape from me of reading poetry perhaps, doing perfornace art, or just me talking about my life, or going on a journey with me outside...i don't know exactly because i like to be spontaneous, but it definitely would be of quality and be entertaining. i would have to go into an editing room and edit it together each month. this would also be in a limited edition of 1,000 copies.

()()()()()()() and the poloroid thing. man. that was just thrown in there for fun! i hardly think a polaroid is worth 1,000 dollars. that's ridiculous! but i just thought it'd be cute to get a unique polaroid from me each month, too. just for kicks ya know?

AND each person would possibly receive from me one of these:

1) a painting
2) a stuffed animal
3) or possibly something else that was a tangible unique thing that i would make

----------

i would dedicate my time for an entire year to make these things for interested people. i do not feel it would be forced. in fact, i feel very energized by this idea. it is an interesting challenge for me. i like interesting challenges. it's like a puzzle or playing chess.

and yes, i do feel that all of that, in it's entirety, is worth 1,000 bucks. not because i am a celebrity but because i would be dedicating all of my time for an entire year to this.

1,000 dollars as my wage for a year to make these things comes to $2.77 a day for my labour. so i think 1,000 bucks is actually very reasonable if not downright cheap.

i am very proud of the quality work i do and i won't be shamed for thinking it's worth little or next to nothing. it might not be worth 1,000 bucks to YOU...and that's JUST FINE. go your way in peace, i'm not forcing anyone to buy it. but it IS worth 1,000 bucks to ME.

my only "mistake", (and i do not even wish to call it that since i don't know why it is so awful that i said i would like to buy myself a house) is that i said i would use the money to help by a house.
so sue me for wanting a house. gadzooks.

and the thing is AND I HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THIS POINT, is that i have been wanting to do something like that for a very long time. AND i just happened to run into this condo the other day and was mesmerized by it....so i thought i'd put two and two together and that might work out for me. but no, i am practically crucified for it.
i think that that says a lot about our society today and how we are more fuct up about money than sex!

i deserve a house! why is it so awful that i want a house?
i'm not going to be ashamed for that!

and p.s. if anyone is interested in buying that package deal that i have descibed here, email me at ana101@hotmnail.com

hehe :) *boing boing boing* like tigger :)
(10 Comments | Comment on this)
3:33p i'm having a big gigantic argument/debate at the jennicam forum about the hatred hurled at me over asking money for my art.

click on this sentence if u want 2 go there
(17 Comments | Comment on this)
9:31p *whew*
wow, 138 posts on the subject of me selling art 2 buy a house.
(9 Comments | Comment on this)
10:18p it's ironic that people at alt.fan.jennicam are ragging on the "anaverse"
when the definition of what the anaverse is is everything having to do with me or my cam, or anything related ....u know..the bbs, the media, the cam, pooka :) etc etc.

so because they are talking about the anaverse, they have by default made themselves part of it

we , the anaverse in the chatroom, i think..., coined that term and thought it was funny and fitting and it gave us a word that we needed to describe what was happening here
(5 Comments | Comment on this)
10:39p yes, i know i'm staying on this whole topic a long time. but it is just LACED with intricacies.

i just have to show u this one thing from alt.fan.jennicam 'cause it's so hysterical!

karde writes to show how what i am offering is not worth 1,000 bucks..(ya i guess it wouldn't be if i was only gonna send off those things for one month. my god). karde writes:

"As an aside, that $1,000/year could be broken down like this so you can see the value:

$13/song/month
$40/2 hour vid/month
$35/magazine/month
$5 per picture/month"
-------

ok, so going on that... 13+40+35+5=93.00

93.00 x 12= $1, 116

hmmm....i guess it's worth even MORE than a thousand!

zillions of replies here: http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=629377

here is one of my responses 2 that thread:

Re: One day . . .
ana
2000-10-20 11:11
we certainly do!

"the battle of the sexes" really gets me down.
no matter how many dr. seuss books i read...i cannot deny the fact that there is a huge difference in the majority of female and male, from my experience.

and no matter how hard i try to understand and get through that to another level...i just cannot make it through that great divide

it's so sad to me
it's so frustrating

kate bush said it so well in her song "running up that hill"

ah, now that i have been reminded of that song...i'm gonna go get it off napster :)
(Reply to this)

here is an excellent reply by terri:

Be Brave, Be Strong tsenft 2000-10-19 22:45 Dear Ana, Sometimes people ask me "what's so inherently feminist about being a camgirl?" or "why do you say that camgirls make art?" The more I read your writing (and Stacy's, because her stuff is blowing me AWAY right now with its clarity), the more I think the two questions are intertwined. To function as an outspoken woman in the public eye, to articulate the position that women have the right to put THEMSELVES anywhere they wish to be, including in front of a camera, THAT to me, is a profoundly feminist act. To resist the lie of the market, the one that says you must be "discovered" and then "promoted" and then "allowed" to make work and express your creativity, THAT IS TO MAKE ART. I was just on some NPR show talking about this. I'm trying to write it through and I'll send it to you soon. In short, someone called in and said I was "covering myself" by claiming my camming as an art act. He said, "How can you believe *that* is art?" To which my only reply was, "Marcel Duchamp." Which of course elicted a whole bunch of "Well, you can't just say that and not qualify it and tell us about Duchamp, etc etc. " from the interviewer. But WHY? Why is it MY job, or YOURS, to explain the notion of conceptual art, or performance art, or any other fucking brand of art to the world? Physisists are not asked each day to justify their science. They get are certain level of beauractic "okay", and they do their damn work. Why is Ana posting about money not akin to a researcher or an artist requesting a grant to work? She's not MAKING ANYONE give her money. She is saying her work has merit and asking those who agree to help her. How can anyone not believe this is about gender? When Saul Bellow gets a book advance, is he asked to bend over to get the check? Ana and Stacy, you are both in the trenches in a way that women working in the 'high' art world and/or academia (or fuck it, mainstream entertainment) are simply not. You are doing the hard stuff, so that the next generation of women don't even have to think about pathologizing themselves just because they want to make autobiography with a damn camera instead of a word processor. Pioneer is an over-used word, but fuck it. It's the one that fits. You have my love and respect. And soon my damn book will come out. With any luck, that will begin to turn the tide, and media studies, women's studies and other places that should be SUPPORTING YOU (and Stacy, and a whole slew of other women with cams) will begin to do so.

Love and Peace, Terri Senft

Saturday, October 21st, 2000

Time Event
2:23a madonna
i'm listening 2 the new madonna record for the first time now. really loud in headphones. i LOVE the song "music"
it definitely makes me wanna woogie :)

gonna try 2 make a new anagram now...but i have mountains of pictures 2 sort through and text 2 put together
(4 Comments | Comment on this)
3:54a ok, at least i got 1/2 the anagram done. its' a biggee. but i'll have 2 wait until tomorrow 2 get it all done and up

must. sleep.

and it will be the first sleep in many days that i will be breathing out of my nose!
yay :)
(1 Comment | Comment on this)
6:11p it's just sort of a day. nothing big. ate breakfast out with jason. talked to my mom. i was really jacked up to get a lot of things done today and i wanted 2 go on a walk, then it got grey really fast...and as the grey set in so did my motivation dissapate.

it's that middle time of day where i can get lost quite easily.

after yesterday's barrage on me and my ideas, and people thinking i am bipolar and psychotic and i'm arrogant greedy shallow lazy and a whore...maybe i day of watching movies would be good.

i am not as drained about it tho as i would usually be. i feel really pretty damn good :)
and tomorrow there is an open house thing at the building that the condo i want is in. and i think i might just go there tomorow and write prayers on it's walls and imbed my energy like a maze of capillaries into it's walls so in the end it will suck me into it's mouth and tell me hello, melting away in a warm cocoon of home...
(6 Comments | Comment on this)
10:28p groovy new anagram up on ana2

Sunday, October 22nd, 2000

Time Event
1:31a i don't think i will justify nor explain my actions for awhile

Monday, October 23rd, 2000

Time Event
12:58p this was something i wrote in response 2 "beep" in the entry below this one
i have been keeping it up because i am very interested in other people's perspective, as much as i cringe at the responses...i need 2 hear these things so i can more fully understand how, as a society, we are so seriously fuct about money and value and the "work ethic" , etc.
i've pretty much heard all i can digest at the moment.
but really, i am perfectly ok. i feel really grounded right now, more than i have been in the last few months...so that is why i was able 2 delce into this "hell" for a bit and watch it.

i am actually really in a very good mood, and don't feel drained at all by this ( ok, i feel like 5% drained )

i know now VERY well about how people will just keep on going if u keep responding...having done this now for three years. can u believe that? 3 years! :)

it really fascinates me how negative energy and positive energy gathers together in little pools.
and how it moves...like mercury in a bottle..u can shake it all up..but it gathers itself all together again in the end.

the whole feng shui thing maybe

and how certain streets are so negative feeling..while one block over feels joyful

i love paying attention to how i feel as i move through my physical neighbourhood...then i can get a better feel of who *i* am, and now just suck in other energies around me and then not be able 2 discern what energies are mine, and what other energies in me i soaked in from my environment.

like the other day i was feeling really positive, and i went into this restaurant 2 eat, and i found myself getting really really critical and bitter in there. i started really picking people apart in a negative way in there. and when i left the restaurant and got outside, i was like "woa! what happened 2 me in there!" and i started 2 shake off all of that critical energy that i felt in there and tried 2 get back to "me", and did :)

it fascinates me. why did i become so critical in there? did the people that worked there hate their job and i soaked that in?
or was it just me?
or what was that? why did that happen?

and the internet is the same. "birds of a feather flock together"

thankfully, inside ana2.com, it is a haven from this...and inside is a wonderful community of loving, caring people from all walks of life. and we gather in the bbs there called " under the bed" and we really support each other through thick and thin :)

posts i made in anarchy: http://www.fetik3.com/bbs/ana.html

Posted by ANA on October 18, 2000 at 09:17:28: In Reply to: Re: hey ana? re: the tax thing posted by goofygrape on October 18, 2000 at 08:22:22: i have very strong feelings about extra high taxes, goofygrape. don't get me wrong. i abhore taxes. all i am saying is that the issue of a women's right to have a control over her own body is something i feel even MORE strongly about. and in your next life, when u are a woman, u will change your feelings, too :)

Posted by ANA on October 18, 2000 at 09:14:54:

In Reply to: ...fine-tune the package... posted by BenoitHQ on October 18, 2000 at 08:14:29:
of COURSE the polaroids aren't equasl to songs. god. the one polaroid is part of the overall package.

i would write brand new songs. just because i haven't written a song in awhile doesn't mean i can't write anymore. unreal.

Posted by ANA on October 18, 2000 at 14:23:15:

In Reply to: Re: ...fine-tune the package... posted by freekee on October 18, 2000 at 11:42:58:
if anyone read what i was offering and thought that i was only going to give out 1,000 polaroids( which i'm NOT, u would get 12 photos that YEAR, one per month...and it is a limited addition of 1,000)
then i think they are just way to stupid to even know how 2 write a check....so i'm not going 2 worry about them.

i am considering making 1,000 limited edition packages that contain what i descibed for INTELLIGENT THOUGHTFUL KIND GENEROUS OBSERVANT people

Posted by ANA on October 18, 2000 at 09:56:05:

In Reply to: that is positive posted by BenoitHQ on October 18, 2000 at 09:46:35:
i am an artist in almost all mediums. i am happy when i am creating in almost any medium. so, not writings songs for a few years and turning my attention towards visual art again, which is my forte, is greatly fulfilling to me.

i plan to live a very long life, so there will be many decades left in which to write songs

Posted by ANA on October 18, 2000 at 17:24:16:

In Reply to: Re: You're not anybody's buddy:( posted by Doc on October 18, 2000 at 15:59:18:
i'll take a cold anyday over suicidal depression

Posted by ANA on October 18, 2000 at 14:24:22:

In Reply to: Too rich for my blood... posted by Ms Fledermaus on October 18, 2000 at 11:00:23:
i think i caught your cold, to :(
argh.

i am in cold medicine land now and it's 70 degrees outside...and here i am...too sick to move

*cry*

Posted by ANA on October 20, 2000 at 08:33:14:

In Reply to: Re: Implants posted by slaqker on October 19, 2000 at 23:23:58:
mine are lopsided. they just kinda shifted through the years.

but if what u wanted 2 say is that u think the doctor did a good job with my breasts, why not just say that instead of asking how much money i paid for them? that's a strange way to go about complimenting me, don't u see?

i'm sure u could just go "ask jeeves" to find out how much implants cost.

a great post by shakti:

Posted by shakti - h0050ba75229c.ne.mediaone.net (24.91.253.86) on October 19, 2000 at 16:56:11: In Reply to: prostitution posted by freekee on October 19, 2000 at 16:33:00: *crawls out of her little teevee screen* Why all this whore-hate, let alone ANA-hate? What does this serve, besides yr ego? Really, I'd like to know. Pleasure is the most beautiful commodity in the world. That's why adverts work as well as they do-- promising pleasure in all sorts of guises (cars, deodorant, sweatshirts). There are so few VISCERAL pleasures in the world-- so few people are brave enough to give them. The reasons people hate artists are some of the same reasons why they hate whores-- duh! And of course you see this. And aren't smart enough or care enough to think about WHY. You just react. Vent. Piss piss piss all over hope. Now tape that dick back to your leg before Ms. Voog cathes you pissing on her carpet, bucko.

Posted by ANA on October 20, 2000 at 12:28:41:

In Reply to: Web Site Speed posted by slaqker on October 19, 2000 at 17:30:02:

fuck u about the messy living room. alright already! are u obsessive compulsive?

it's my living room not yours (triple platinum extra strength, DUH)

so just lay off

Posted by ANA on October 20, 2000 at 12:24:38:

In Reply to: Biggest Dream posted by Shipko on October 20, 2000 at 11:58:06:

it's not a boring trendy condo

and i can still have my dome house in the desert as well someday

i do not limit myself

Posted by ANA on October 20, 2000 at 22:12:57:

In Reply to: Re: A SAD ANA posted by Shipko on October 20, 2000 at 20:52:42:

well, those posts DO affect me. how could about 300 posts saying that u are a greedy whore not affect u?

i'm not SAD. i'm IRRITATED a bit. i guess i'm sad that people are so clueless sometimes. exhausting.

Posted by ANA on October 22, 2000 at 00:07:25:

In Reply to: Ana Voog.com @ cdnow posted by veto on October 21, 2000 at 22:07:26:

i haven't given up music. i plan 2 live until i'm 100. i have lots of time. i'm just taking a break because that whole major label bullshit i went through really traumatized me.

u know the scene in a clockwork orange when they hold the guys eyes open and show him violence and also play his fave song , beethoven's 5th...and then whenever he hears that song he gets violently ill?

well it was like that. so, i just need a break

and i LOVE my webcam. i feel very very fulfilled from it

Posted by ANA on October 22, 2000 at 10:13:38:

In Reply to: Re: Ana Voog.com @ cdnow posted by veto on October 22, 2000 at 00:24:32:

why would i KILL myself over this webcam "thing"?
didn't i just tell u that i love my cam?
THIS is something i plan 2 do for the rest of my life ( but who knows what the future will bring)
i have never been happier. i'm doing what i LOVE!
i intend 2 incoorporate music into my site in the future. everything i do connects together

Posted by ANA on October 22, 2000 at 13:49:18:

In Reply to: Re: Ana Voog.com @ cdnow posted by veto on October 22, 2000 at 12:15:47:

my last record label i was on is the one who kiled off my desire 2 do music for awhile. not my webcam. my webcam kept and continiues 2 keep my creativity alive

Posted by ANA on October 23, 2000 at 12:16:58:

In Reply to: stay hungry posted by freekee on October 23, 2000 at 11:46:10:

i think that the reason that the first record from an artist that gets signed to a major label is good..and then the second one is usually of poorer quality is because that artist had their whole LIFE 2 write that first album for the major label.
and then they are FORCED by the major label 2 make a second album VERY VERY quickly.

that is what happened to me...anavoog.com could have been infinitely cooler if i would have had the time and resources to make it cooler. but they only give u so much money and so much time...it's really scary. it's awful.

i think that the songs on that record are really string..but the execution of them are rather weak , except for a few, because i was in this expensive studio and the clock was ticking. i'd have to settle for sounds that were "good enough" because i didn't have the time 2 really explore it.

and then when it got mixed, we HAD 2 mix one song a day, and there was no room for mistakes. and there were many mistakes because our mixer was a psychotic alcoholic and would break down after 4 hours of mixing and start drinking and then throw little temper tantrums about shit.

it was hell.

but i was not given the time nor the luxury of being able to meet the person who would mix my record beforehand. nor could we tell that label that this guy was AWFUL...they would not give us any money to start over again.

so when we got home, we had 2 resort to putting on about 3 rough mixes we had done...because those were BETTER than what the mixer had done.

there is so much shit and politics that happen with major labels and the artists that the public just doesn't get 2 see. and then when the record comes out it's all the artist's fault.

and another thing...about my last record...i had a song called "company's here" that was really cool and was supposed to be on that record but it was a very complex song and it needed a lot of time 2 finish it...well, time was running out so i had 2 pull that song and quickly write another 2 replace it..because u HAVE 2 have at least 10 songs on a record. so i went hoem and in one day wrote "hollywood" and in one day recorded it!

so REALLY that song on my record is no more than an expensive demo of what it could be.

well, the record label decided ( i didn't get 2 decide ) that THAT would be the single...but since it was obviously missing "something" ( like the time to fully record it how it should have been )...they took it to a bunch of remixers ( i didn't get to pick who ) who remixed it in a really gross fashion and then the label picked which remix they liked best ( i didn't get to pick ) and they put that out as my single!

and then the song has NOTHG+ING to do with my and doesn't reflect me at all or how that song was supposed to sound.

but no one knows this...and people think it's ME who did that. and it's so embarrassing to me...altho a lot of people seemed to have liked it anyway..

eek.

a huge argument/debate/fiasco ensued..and is still smolding at the camgirl bbs at peepingmoe.com

the thread starts here:

http://www.peepingmoe.com:6968/forums/jenni/index.cgi?read=42746

and then there are whole bunch more threads there, too.

but here are all my replies 2 that thread;

a hugePosted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 10:26 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog (Patrick)

"What we wish for others determines what we allow for ourselves"

ohmigod that COMPLETELY sums it up!

and thank u :)
---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 3:13 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (christina)

THIS IS TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING RIDICULOUSLY MEAN TO ME ABOUT:
1) selling my art
2) wanting a house

ok, this is really getting out of hand

1) firstly...when i posted my idea...it was just that...an idea.
just kicking around some thoughts in my head, y'know?

2) secondly i am not asking for people to just send me 1,000 so that i can buy a condo.
i am asking them IF they would want to pay 1,000 for a year's worth of:
-----

AND each person would possibly receive from me one of these:

1) a painting
2) a stuffed animal
3) or possibly something else that was a tangible unique thing that i would make

----------

and yes, i do feel that all of that, in it's entirety, is worth 1,000 bucks. not because i am a celebrity but because i would be dedicating all of my time for an entire year to this.

1,000 dollars as my wage for a year to make these things comes to $2.77 a day for my labour. so i think 1,000 bucks is actually very reasonable if not downright cheap.

i deserve a house! why is it so awful that i want a house?
i'm not going to be ashamed for that!

and p.s. if anyone is interested in buying that package deal that i have descibed here, email me at ana101@hotmnail.com

hehe :) *boing boing boing* like tigger :)

---
Re: perspective
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 21 October 2000 12:40 a.m.

In Response To: perspective (Eric)

i seriously doubt i am going to find 1,000 people interested in this offer RIGHT NOW. i'll be incredibly lucky if i get 20.

the reason i wanted a thousand limit was because if i am going to go through all that work, i'll want to make more than just 20.

maybe eventually , in a decade , i'll sell them all
who knows?

once i would receive the 1,000 from a person....i would take out of that 1,000 the $ it will take 2 make the stuff.
( do u really think that i wouldn't think of that?)

i am working for 2.77 for EACH person.
it will take a very long time to make each thing individual.
the covers to the cds will be handmade.
the magazine will be handmade
there will be A LOT of detail going into these things.

and if people are ragging on me simply because there might actually be a chance i could make a million dollars...well then that's utterly selfish and cruel of them

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 21 October 2000 1:11 a.m.

In Response To: Re: perspective (Eric)

i'll be making the magazines at home and perhaps hand binding them
i still haven't figured out all the fine details

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 7:41 p.m.

In Response To: Ana Voog: pertinacious (moejo)

{{{{{{{{{{MOEJO}}}}}}}}}}}
u are such a beautiful spirit
it is a pleasure 2 be your cyberfriend :)
i have a feeling both of us will be doing this for a long long time.
and we can look back on these days and laugh our heads off :)

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 4:31 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Jolie)

ok, HOW on earth do u think that i am BEGGING for the money?
i am making a product then advertising it.
if that is begging then i guess every single person who sells ANYTHING is begging.

is your brain functioning?

u are entitled to your opinion of me. whatever.
and i am entitled to my opinion of u

when i said " all the people being mean" i am , in part, referring to the people in alt.fan.jennicam..and i should have made that clear..and right after i posted that i went "ooops" and wished that i had added that bit of infornation..but it was too late for me to add to it.

of COURSE i new that people would comment on it. but i wasn't expecting such a negative whirlwind to forn over it.

u know i AM human and have feelings. i am not some sort of cyber paper doll or tamigochi.

if u had posted something u were really feeling positive about and then u had people like u saying that u were begging and stooping low?

would that NOT effect u?

i've had people saying i should be fuct in the *ss for that kind of money
and saying i am shallow and a whore.

i KNOW i am not these things. and i am fairly grounded enough to not be in tears over this or something, or bullied into thinking it IS a bad idea just cause a bunch of people hate my idea....

but y'know...i have feelings and i AM human and i really don't think a lot of people can fully grasp that. and that is VERY frustrating to me.

it is something that i know will not dissipate, likley...that way of thinking...
but that does not mean that just because i know some people will be negative about things i do...that it will not effect me.

i mean, right now i am actually in quiet a good mood. which is why i'm typiing so much. i hae a lot of energy right now. i'm listening to cool mp3's...i am debating with people over an issue i feel passionate about...it's sunny and the perfect temperature and i have a nice fizzy coke in front of me...

but reading such horrible hateful things about me doesn;t exactly ADD to the joy of the day, y'know?

sure,i know i don't have 2 read that sh*t. but when i'm feeling extra energetic and good...like today...it interests me to read it because i am interested in psychology. and this whole " if u are an artist and are making money u are shallow" and if u are a WOMAN artist then not only are u shallow but u are a WHORE and should bend over to the "man"

mysogyny is rampant
it's scary. it's horrific.
it hurts me.
it hurts everyone in the end.

so i read the posts to try to understand WHY there is such a hate...so that maybe i can..i don't know...come to grips with it, or stop it, or at least stop it from being around ME, or SOMETHING.

it's hard.
it's a very bizarre thing

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 7:34 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Jolie)

i'd like 2 know what i have a history of not fulfilling! LOL!

and if u are gonna come up with that i haven't sent the UNvalentine's out yet...well, they don't have a time limit, and i am taking my time 2 make them special, and i am paying for all of it myself. no one bought them. they are my present 2 my patrons for their kindness.
i have over 400 i'm working on, EACH one individual, all stuffed with faerie surprises, ketchup and glitter :)
---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 7:38 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (hellnation)

thank u very much for saying that! :)
ya, this whole prostitution thing is all part of the mysogyny
it runs so deep, so very very deep

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 3:52 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

yes, i was unclear in my analog entry , and indeed it would seem that the idea came after i saw the condo. excuse me, i was excited.
but y'know...even IF the idea had come about as a way 2 help me buy a house...why is that so bad???

indeed it is your right to comment all u want on what i do.

and it's also my right then 2 comment about what u do..what posts u make.

it makes me angry and i have the right to express that anger, the same as u do

a very simple concept 2 grasp, no?

and i made my first entry in this thread " to the people who are being mean to me"

i did not name specific people. so the fact that u took that statement personally would seem to me that deep down u think u are being mean...because u think i was aiming that at partly at u.

hmmmm.

--ana voog

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 3:40 p.m.

In Response To: You tell em Ana (Just another Stupid Troll)

thank u :)

the post i just made, i now realize was a bit screwy because i did the 1) 2) 3) , etc thing all wrong. lol :)
i guess it's just more fuel for the fire for the people that are bashing me at alt.fan.jennicam! :)

they have actually gone so far as 2 say that because i do not have perfect grammar and punctuation , i am a shallow person.

man, that newsgroup is just wild! it's like a weird whirlpool of hate that feeds off it's own negative energy.

i don't read it very often..maybe a few times a month...'cause it really interests me how people react to jennifer, and how easily things get miscontrued...like with the childhood game called "operator" where u have a line of people and the first person whispers a sentence into the ear of the person next to them then so and and so forth..and at the end of the line, that person says the sentence that they heard..and u can see that the sentence that makes it to the end is nothing even close to the original sentence.

i am very interested in psychology so i observe this whole webcam thing a lot.
it's funny because many people think it's one way...that they are only looking at me. but i am also watching "them" through bbs, newsgroups, the email i receive ( which is verrrrrrrrrrry interesting :), and the media.

anyway, i could go on and on about it....and i do...at my site and my livejournal that i call "analog1"

i am going to take the first entry i made in this thread and fix it a bit then put it into my "analog1" which u can access by going here:

ana.livejournal.com

and if u haven't checked out livejouranl yet, u MUST. go here:
www.livejournal.com

it is SO fun and addicting :)

peas and a telescope,
ana

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 21 October 2000 1:14 a.m.

In Response To: At least you have it... (Eric)

jennifer has a clue about this issue, believe me
we have discussed it together many times at great length

what gave u the impression that she didn't have a clue about this?
---
well, i can completely understand her ways when it comes to this.
she really isn't about "interaction" when it comes to her cam.
she is the wtached not so much the watcher
i don't think she even watches other cams that much, if ever.
i don't mean to sound harsh...but for ME i'm NOT that interested in what's going on with all the live's of people that make contact with me.
there are jsu SO many people, it's would be utterly draining to have to be concerned about that many people, let alone keep track of who's who.
it's maybe hard 2 understand unless it's happening 2 u
but this 24/7 cam thing is INTENSE and both jennifer and i work very hard on our sites making sure everything is up and running. and her site is TONS bigger than mine.
we give so much of ourselves already THROUGH our cam.
at least that is how it is for me. i communicate BACK 2 people via my cam and via my anagrams, analog and mailing list. i give A LOT that way...and after all that i really don't have much energy for one on one interaction.
a lot of people don't understand that.
and there are also a lot of very glommy people that if u gave them an inch they'd take a mile energywise. sad but true.
i am guarded that way. and i THINK jennifer is even more so that way..and i can understand. i mean....man....look at all the negative crap thrown at her daily (BEFORE she stole anyone's boyfriend)
this bbs has to be one of the most negative places on earth. and her newsgroup is satanic.
plus all the email she gets. it's just really hard to be really one on one so much when u have already given so much out via the cam or with the diaries and stuff.
i, personally, have very few friends that i keep in touch with. i am not an extrovert i'm an introvert. i love to be alone. and so many people just don't get that at all and think i'm snubbing them. i have lost quite a few friendships because i do not keep in contact with people.

whenever i have spoken with jennifer, she definitely has never talked AT me but WITH me. she is not as self centered as people think. altho, i do disagree with the way she went about the boyfriend thing.

and she also is a very giving. when i was with her she was always very attentive to make sure i was ok and stuff. and she has bought me all kinds of wonderful little gifts and given them to me for no occasion at all except just to be nice.

and of COURSE she wants people to be nice 2 her in turbo chat! it's HER chatroom... do u think she really wants any more negative energy?
i sure the hell don't.

if anyone is a dick in my chatroom they are kicked and banned. and that's pissed a lot of people off, but my chatroom is a very civil fun community because of it.

no one should have to put up with negativity in their own "house"
and yes, i think of anacam and it's bbs and chat to be part of my house
i wish others could see it from this viewpoint

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 21 October 2000 12:30 a.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

well, triple platinum extra strength DUH!!!
of COURSE it's a fundraiser!
what in the heck is wrong with that???
what's wrong with raising funds??

the only reason u don't like it is because i'm going to use that money to help by myself a house. and i think that's really twisted.

i guess we should all just bash the girl scouts and every church and every organization in the world and the little boy with the lemonade stand that's doing it to raise money to by himself a bicycle!

do the brownies taste compromised when someone has a bake sale to raise money for a new whatever?
are the people that bake the brownies whores?

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 21 October 2000 1:44 a.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (sarah)

u obviously know NOTHING about me whatsoever.
and u have no clue about what i was offering if u think it's just a polaroid.
and i think the only way that "advice" could be contructive is if u printed it out, made a paper airplane out of it, then poked yourself in the eyeball several times. maybe then you'd wake up.

don't get all upset and offended, but sometimes a person needs a poke in the eye

heh.

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 9:53 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

well, for 13 of those 50 years i made a salary of 500 bucks or less.
pretty hard 2 save money then.

i did make records. the major labels own them and i haven't seen a penny.

it's not like i don't understand what it's like to be poor, or work for something really really hard.

i'm not gonna get into my whole life history here.

i've had 2 go 2 food shelves for my food and lived in scary scary places because i could not afford 2 live anywhere else.

been there. done that. gonna get a house. if i don't get this one, i will get one eventually.

and to all those people who keep putting words in my mouth implying that i said i NEEDED this house....*sigh*

i do not NEED this house. i WANT it.

and i DO deserve it.

we ALL deserve a great house
---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 9:56 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (AnaVoog)

lol, i mean of those 15 years not 50 :)
altho it FELT like 50!

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 10:22 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

GOD! i am not compromising my art!!!
how can u even SAY that if it hasn't been made yet?
YOU haven't even seen it!
u could only have an OPINION that i have compromised my art AFTER u saw every single thing that i made that year.
and if i compromise my art...WHAT DO YOU CARE???

are u so emotionally wrapped up in my art that u are just GRIEVING inside at the prospect that for one year my art might go to hell?

do u even VISIT my site???

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 21 October 2000 12:03 a.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

oh wow. i see the error of my ways now. i am a changed person.
and THANK u for all the nice things you've said. gee.
i feel all cozy inside now from your love.

---
Posted By: AnaVoog <camgrrl@hotmail.com>
Date: 21 October 2000 2:16 a.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

no, you've just called me greedy, arrogant and just a whole SLEW of other things between here and alt.fan jennicam

and that is highly offensive to me, as it would be to anyone.

u are one of the worst kinds of people because u act nice then say bad things behind their backs...and u have that subtle character assasination thing down.
u throw in compliments in with the little digs and cuts to try to whittle away at someone's self esteem in hope's that u can have it both ways...so that they will in the end THANK u for being so nice yet when they walk away from u they feel sick inside and cannot figure out why

---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 21 October 2000 12:47 a.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

oh right.
you've just been a little angel to me.
wow.

you're so full of sh*t u can't even see staight!
---
Posted By: AnaVoog
Date: 20 October 2000 10:11 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Phew!)

exactly.

i'd also like 2 point out that almost everyone gets a house beyond their means.
that's why there are things like loans and credit cards, etc.

if i had any credit, i'd get a loan. but i don't because most of my life i have VERY little money. i didn't even have enough money to save until about 6 months ago or so.

does anyone with a house scheme for a way 2 get it?
doesn't that just make sense?

i can't get a loan, so i'm trying 2 raise cash.

good chance i won't get this condo, but no shame in trying.

i have nothing to lose from it and everyything to gain.
like learning what goes into the process of getting a house, etc

each time i try i will have more knowledge of it.

isn't that the way u learn things? by sticking your neck out and try try again until u get it right?

no shame in trying 2 make a dream a reality

i don't like 2 think like a defeatist

---

( am i good now? i didn't call u a name , did i? )

---

and here is part of a huge flame against me at the newsgroup alt.fan.jennicam

again, i document this because i want 2 show how fuct we are as a society about money, and also how mysognist

Author: RedTango <redtango@primenet.com>

<< previous · next in thread >>

Off the Jenni subject, but interesting none the less because it raises the issue of how/why art is derived.

I am an artist myself, and I happen to make a living off it. I also do art for my own personal enjoyment.
I dont have a problem with artists selling their work to make a living. I think art is both valuable when given freely and when paid for. I dont have a problem with artists saving up $$$ to buy a home. I did.

For instance, I recently wanted to buy something that was a little expensive, so i took on some freelance artwork which took a month to complete in my spare time. Then I got the check and bought what I wanted.

Ana seems willing to do the same thing, but there is something different about her approach. There is a charity aspect to how she approaches her goal...listing the breakdown, devising the "plan" on how to get the money, and all the stuff you will get if you send her the $$$. It seems forced. You can't approach your audience and ask them to help you buy a home. People purchase art when inspired to do so, and, in my case, I go out and offer my artistic skills when I want some extra $$$ but I dont tell my employer to give me a certain amount of work because I want to buy a house and this is how much I need and how much they should give me.

Now, purely my own bias...I happen to like Ana's site, its cool artistically. The stuff she is offering for the $1000..not worth it. Polaroids...tapes...stuffed animals in the mail....what is this, renting a friend for a year or something? And a glossy magazine? She must not know much about publishing and the costs involved.
The kicker is the "one hour video of me talking about what I am thinking that moment and whats's going on in my life or giving a tour of my apartment"...wow. I'd give money NOT to have to watch that.

It's a free country, and more power to her if she actually pulls it off. But I think I will pass on the years supply of stuffed animals and videotaped walks around the block.

There seems to be this culture of people who are willing to do anything but a 9 to 5 job to reach their goals. If you are willing and disiplined, an artist can buy a home and support themselves, but it takes a bit more than sending doodles to people in the mail. Gads, if it were only that easy!

-------------------

and here are all the posts made by fetik3/jason on the peepingmoe thread called "anavoog"

Posted By: Fetik3
Date: 20 October 2000 8:30 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog (Kell)

Could you please cut and paste the sentence Ana wrote that consitutes of "begging"?

I saw Ana talk about the idea of offering a product, and put a price tag on it. That is not begging. That is the typical action of anyone offering a product for sale. If you could produce some evidence that shows otherwise I'd love to see it.

Re: Ay fetik!
Posted By: Fetik3
Date: 23 October 2000 8:58 a.m.

In Response To: Ay fetik! (jema)

"I was surrounded by many artists and can easily spot who has it and who is just simply WANTING to be an artist." - Jema

I went to a perforning arts high-school, and received a B.A. in Philosophy (focused on Aesthetics and Epistemology), so I too have been surrounded by artists/craftspeople, and have had a very strong fornal education in the arts. However, unlike you, each day that I learned (and learn) more about art, the more I realized that you cannot just look at someone/something and "easily spot who has it". It is not until after examining the piece, and speaking with the artist, you can get a sense of whether it is a craft, or whether it is art (the act of judging the piece in terms of quality is a whole other beast to tackle). Art, in my opinion, is 80% conceptual, 20% realization, whereas a craft is 80% realization, 20% conceptual. Clearly these percentages are not set in stone, and there are always exceptions to the rule, but historically, the brilliant - idea expanding creations, have rarely been understood and accepted based on their result alone. Rather, it takes years and years, before the ideas understood, in relation to the creation and artist, eventually resulting in a cultural acception/conditiong of the result itself as its own end without a need to understand the conceptual side (Art after time becomes understood as a craft, which in turn facilitiates this confusion of measuring contemporary, modern art with the rules of craft). This is the main problem that I see, that people try to evaluate art with the methods one would use to evaluate a craft. It seems to me, anyone who says they can "easily spot who has it", is guilty of this confused approach. Again, historically, it's the "educated critics" who can "easily spot who has it", that usually have the hardest time accepting new ideas (and of course as always, there are acceptions to the rule).

It's funny to think that most of the pieces of art that we consider truly "great", were either created as a product for money (the icon paintings), or were completely unaccepted during their time period as art. Yet in our own time period, many people still have a problem with people selling their "art" (they've heard some sort of rhetoric that it takes away from the integrity), and still bash that which they "think" they understand. That's the really important lesson from art history, in my opinion. People didn't bash the modern art of their time, because they didn't think they understood it. On the contrary, they bashed it because they thought they *COMPLETELY* understood, and that because of their expertise, they knew with complete certainity that it was crap. Yet when we look back, it's understood that the artist and their art was in fact, misunderstood. You'd think these recurring lessons in history would open us up more to new ideas, and I guess to a small degree it has... but in my opinion, we still have a long way to go.

Re: Commissioned art
Posted By: Fetik3
Date: 20 October 2000 7:57 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Commissioned art (Goolia)

That doesn't make any sense. It's ok if the artist is asked to create something for money (and given the money before they make it), but it's not ok for the artist to instigate the transaction? How many artists do you know? Any of the "career" artists I know are constantly trying to sell their "services"... sometimes the work has already been created and sometimes it hasn't. What you are saying if an artist want money for creating their art before they make it, that the artist should WAIT till they are asked. Don't speak unless spoken too. That's completely absurd. Would it have been more appropriate if the artist would just sit there on their doorstep, wait till someone says "hey I want to give you money to paint something for me", with the artist responding, "Yes, and I promise to only use that money for the bare necessities."

Not only that, you are completely off on your history of the icon painters. They *DID* solicit their services to the churches. And they did it for whatever they wanted - money, food, fame, etc.

Today grants and advances are an extremely common part of creating art. The artist gets the money based on an idea. Usually they don't say that they want the money to fund their new swimming pool, but you can bet like any working person, that they have some plans for the money they get.

The entire film industry is based on money first, product later. Major record labels always give the artists advances (in addition to paying for the production of the product). During the "classical" period of music, composers, and in fact artists of all different styles were given patronage from the aristocrats - money, food, gifts, a home, in exchange for entertaining the rich. Compositions that we typically classify as "works of art" were made in this manner.

Re: anavoog: perspective
Posted By: Fetik3
Date: 20 October 2000 8:49 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

What have you seen makes you think Ana isn't happy doing what she is doing? I simply cannot understand this absurd notion that an artist should not obtain anything beyond basic necessities to live. Why is it that someone with a "real job" is allowed to save up money from the work they do and buy extravagant things, but the artist isn't? What if your boss sat you down and said, "Ok, here is your paycheck, but before I give it to you, I want to know what you are going to do with it." Would that be even remotely acceptable? What if she/he thought that you were spending way too much money on computers/accessories and said "Ok, after you are done here, I expect you to wash my car." Does that really make sense to you?

So the artRe: anavoog: perspective
Posted By: Fetik3
Date: 20 October 2000 8:58 p.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

Again, I think you are completely off base here...

"----I think *everyone* should work towards a goal---not receive the goal and then do the work for it."

What do you think Ana has been doing for the last 15+ years? She has been working toward the goal of becoming proficient at her art (musical and visual). You have a complete misconception that Ana is starting from square one here, and saying "I think I'd like a condo. Perhaps I can get people to give me money, and then I will try to make something." Artists typically spend YEARS and YEARS perfecting their art before being able to create something that people would be interested in. The fact that Ana has become very successful at her art, in terms of popularity, is because she has worked VERY hard at it. It's like a pianist who spends her whole life working on jazz improv, creates compositions, develops a reputation, and finally gets to the point where she is able to say, "Hey, you know my work, you know the quality, if you would like me to play live this is my fee." What this pianist uses the money for, or even if she decides to play a few gigs to obtain some luxury item does not invalidate the work she has put into her art, or the result she produces. This is where Ana is at. People know who she is, they know the quality of art she creates, so asking for money prior to the completion of the product is perfectly legit -- and definitely not getting the goal, doing the work later.

ists you know have created the life they want from their art, and perhaps they don't want that 360k condo. So what. If you think all "real" artists live very middle of the road lifestyles, and that is all they want, you are VERY off base. Go to any movie, pick up any cd, and then try to do a little resesarch on one of the artists. I bet you'll find that many of them have very extravagant lifestyles. Artists, like all other people, are individuals. And I bet if you did a survey you'd find that very few individuals (artists or otherwise) would object to being able to obtain non-neccessities by doing what they love.

Incidently, I wonder if sports players have to put up with this, or if society views their extravagant salaries/college scholarships in as negative of a manner as they do artists. After all, they're just "playing a game."

Re: anavoog: perspective
Posted By: Fetik3
Date: 21 October 2000 1:02 a.m.

In Response To: Re: anavoog: perspective (Goolia)

Again, I disagree with what you believe motivates most artists, in particular what they use those advances for. The last 3 people I know who received advances spent that money primarily on excessive luxury items. And the work they created was absolutely wonderful. I believe I understand what you are saying, that creating art out of a financial desire will not produce the same quality of art that would be produced by creating it for it's own end, considering it as a financial object after the creation... but I definitely don't agree with it. I don't believe that the order of events has any significance at all. I believe that one can create art, and be fully engaged in the activity -- having the conception and creation of the project be firmly grounded in the creative act -- while having made previous plans for the financial reward of that creation. One is able, in my opinion, to have multiple goals for a single act, without having the goals delude or compromise one another. Ultimately, even if one creates the art first, before considering the finanical rewards, there is still a subconscious understanding that the piece will ultimately be sold, and some sort of item(s) will be bought with the money. They might not have tangible specifics about what will be bought, but I think that is ultimately trivial. They are still working with the pretense that the piece of art is also a piece of a product. Thus, in my opinion both acts are fundamentally the same, the main difference being the focused plan of the finanical reward.