september 24th, 2004
past anagrams	menu	utb

things i posted in isa's bbs awhile ago.
i have a gut feeling that isa is not going to return:(

but i couldn't help but stick up for her in her private bbs:

here is the thread:

Posted by Ana_Voog on August 02, 2004 at 11:10:23:

i heard back from shane about isa, and he says that he sees her every so often and that she has not been quite herself and is very depressed because of certain bad things that have happened in her life (site being hacked, computer being hacked, death in the family...) and is working full time at another job.
and so this site is in limbo from all of that... and i don't know anything more than that. i must say she must be awfully damn depressed to not even say something...anything...to us on this site :(
and i'm still worried for her very much because of that, because i think it's unlike her to do that.but shane says that isa is safe, so thank god for that! we love you isa!!! and i miss you!!!!

some stupid guy replies:

Posted by RB on August 11, 2004 at 14:25:28:

In Reply to: isa news! posted by Ana_Voog on August 02, 2004 at 11:10:23:

In the spirit of enlightenment and understanding, as opposed to being judgmental and critical, I can say from personal experience that this commercializing one's sexuality for profit is highly charged and rarely, if ever, healthy for one's psyche.

Sexualization and objectification do their damage in silence and in the deep psyche of our minds, regardless how noble our artistic intentions are. Ultimately, like a cancer they spread too far to be ignored. Self-esteem and Self-intimacy are the first casualties.

As in Isa's case, its usually some catastrophic event, not related to our sexuality that brings these wounds to the surface. This event typically triggers a complete rejection and withdrawal from our lives and leads us in to a deep depression. It takes years of therapy before we are able to reclaim our self-esteem, our self-intimacy, our sexuality, and our psychological well-being.

I feel for Isabella. I've been where she is now. It is a frightening unhappy place. It will take love, time and professional help to heal these wounds...but there is no other choice than to stop and heal.

Congratualtions on taking the first step....choosing to change. My best hopes and wishes to you on your journey to a better future.

i reply:

hi "psychologist". i'm sorry for your personal experience, and i understand what you are talking about (having been a sex worker myself for years and i know many sex workers)... but in the spirit of "enlightenment and understanding", i have to say that you seem, to me, to be experiencing a huge bout of "projection" here. perhaps projecting your experience onto isa? (and i can't help but be curious as to why you are here, if you think that commercialising one's sexuality is damaging. why are you enabling that?) but i'll assume (as you assume) that you are, in part, working through YOUR pain by examining and dissecting isa.

anyway, unless you are isa's closest personal friend, i think it's unwise to think one could assume what she is feeling or going through, since if we add up the very small little known vague facts we have, it's highly illogical to jump to any conclusions whatsoever as to her emotion/spiritual wellbeing.

postulating and wondering are one thing, but to waltz on in here and make statements as if they were concrete facts, as if you were mind melding like some vulcan in star trek into to isa's deepest innermost psyche about "our" this and "our" that, is downright annoying and narcissistic. and what is harmful (mostly to yourself) is to assume that isa's experience is your experience, or anyone's experience. and you did assume that, and so, even that, makes your post highly judgemental and critical and not very enlightening or understanding at all (as far as isa is concerned).

assuming things about people you don't know or groups of people (sex workers, housewives, muslims, bisexuals, priests) even if you happen to be part of that group, is always one of the most foolhardy and dangerous paths to take.

open your eyes wider. the universe is big.
experiences are infinite. somtimes things are what they seem, but sometimes they most certainly are not.

and if you don't agree and/or are miffed with how i have summarized you up and given you advice as if i know you and your inner workings just by analyzing this very small piece of you, how does it feel?

enlightening and understanding?

stupid person replies:

Posted by RB on August 12, 2004 at 09:31:16:

In Reply to: hmm. posted by Ana_Voog on August 11, 2004 at 23:38:12:

My dear Ana, it seems as though the projection is coming from you? In this wide universe and all its varied experiences, there are some universal truths...

Women who are objectified and sexualized either by their own choosing, or against their will will suffer a loss of self-esteem and self-intimacy. Nothing healthy ever comes from the commercialization of one's sexuality. Ever.

Look around, look inside...perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've yet to find one single sex worker who will tell you that they are happy with themselves and their choice to become a sex worker....not one. They may claim to have been happy for a moment, a few years, but in the long run...it doesn't work. Human sexuality is a very powerful thing, it flourishes only in an environment of love and intimacy, not commercialization.

That's the bad news...the good news is it looks like isa has made the first step towards making healthy decisions about her life going forward.

The enlightenment that I'm trying to share is that Isa's abrupt departure from this site and community is not personal. I'm sure that Isa is doing what she has to do to take care of Isa.

All the best

i reply:

don't call me dear.
and don't make some weak attempt to try to turn this around on me. that's ridiculous.

there are plenty of sex workers who are happy with what they do. i'm not saying isa is or isn't one of them. but there are plenty who are just fine with it. so, you are just plain wrong about making such a generalized assumption about an entire group of people.

maybe YOU haven't met one. but that doesn't mean that there aren't any. maybe you haven't been to peru either, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

and i'm not saying that the people that i KNOW are happy sex workers are happy 100% of the time. WHO IS happy with their job 100% of the time? i think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this world who doesn't, at one time or another, have a hard time with their job....whatever that job may be...sex work..secretary...housewife...banker...artist...

there are ups and downs to EVERY job.

but to simply make a blanket statement that ALL sex workers are unhappy simply because YOU have never met any...is just proposterous and blind.

stupid person replies:

There is a big difference being "happy" with one's occucaption and being happy with one's life. Unfortunately, when that occupation is that of a sex worker, the distinctions become blurred because of the dynamics of our human experience.

The issue remains...dear, loving, creative, wonderful people continue to suffer deep wounds to their psyche when attempting to commercialize their sexuality.

I would be ecstatic if that were not the case, if we could find one instance where an individual has succesfully achieved a balance in their life over a period of time. Where that individual could honestly sit down with friends, family, their children and espouse to them how wonderful and rewarding their life in this industry has been and how they would reccomend that others follow the same path.

I understand your hypersensitivity and defensiveness, believe me, I've been there. You can attempt to personalize and fragment an argument for as long as you want. But you'll never be able to find that individual.

All the best to Isa (or whatever her real name is) in her efforts to move on and heal herself

i reply:

Posted by Ana_Voog on August 12, 2004 at 17:36:38:

In Reply to: Re: uh... posted by RB on August 12, 2004 at 15:18:31:

it's tragic you are choosing to remain so ignorant.

---

anyway i have met many of these "types" who profess to "care" about "internet whores" .(during my past 7 years on the internet as a "camgirl") as a way to make themselves feel superior and "absolved" from the act of their guilty egos enjoying our sites and getting off on them.

like a priest who goes out and has sex with a prostitute and then goes home to pray to "save the whore's soul"

not that we are prostitutes and they are priests, but i hope you grasp my analogy regardless.

+++

i admit, i sometimes use my breasts as "stress balls" :)

other things i have wriiten in people's journals:

yes, the dealings with my mother have definitely been of use. i believe that i chose her to be my mother in this incarnation...for whatever reason. maybe to push all my button and make me do my "kung fu" better. either that or it was just a bad choice on my part, like "oops, i shouldn't have picked THAT person to be my roommate!". and you live and learn. which it is, i will probably not know until "the afterlife" (someone better give me the answer then or astral heads will fly! ha!).

and yes, i completely understand all you are saying here re: binding.
i totally know about the karma thing and also to be VERY specific on what you want. the wording is almost everything.

but thank you for the clarity on binding the actions , not the person. that helps and makes things clearer for me.

and working with mirrors, that is my forte. my life has been nothing BUT mirrors (being the child of a narcissist). i am echo!

in fact, ironically enough, anacam (my website), has been one big mirror. before i discovered that my mom was she she was and even knew of any of this, my major quote in regards to anacam, in my bio is:

"but as i've been doing this for well over 7 years now (i started on august 22nd, 1997), i'm coming to the conclusion that this site isn't about me at all...it's about YOU! yes, anacam seems to be a giant ink blot that people project their own psyche upon. it's about PROJECTION.

what do YOU see here? what do YOU think this site is about? and what does that say about YOU? :) what does it say about your ideas, morals, ethics, boundaries, state of mind...when you feel and think about this site? that is my question to you...

i am your mirror, it seems."

so, my life has been dedicated to this, without me really even being conscious of it until now :)

thank you for your input. it really helps, and makes me know i am on the right track, intuitively, for what i need to do :)"

and

"ha :)
ya, i don't exactly wish my mom to be uncomfortable (unless it's the sort of uncomfortable that will lead her to a higher understanding).

i think my prayer would be more like "may the fleas of 1,000 camels infest the spirit of "she" with divine knowledge *at the perfect time, place, and way in accordance to the law of free will* and may her arms be too short to shoo them away in order to remain blind"

question.

the one thing that has been not in my particular personal "brand" of spirituality is the idea of the 4 corners/quarters/directions.
but as i have gotten older, i have a lot of visuals that come to me regarding the "technology" of the earth. i hadn't ever "felt" the earth as an actual living entity/being and also a machine/technology with actual "rules" until the last decade. and now the idea of calling upon, or acknowledging the technology of the 4 quarters makes a lot more sense to me. because "god" DOES speak in geometry.
i don't know if what i am saying is worded correctly, or if i am being clear, i hope i am making sense to you. it's so hard to put into words.

and now i am learning about "ley lines"
i don't know if you have ever read anything about the pleiadians or if you even "subscribe" to the idea of extraterrestrial life. but i do (yes, i am a nut in the best possibe way :)
the pleidians talk about how important calling on the 4 corners are..but then the books (i've read) don't go into WHY it is.

so...*long winded i know...* my question is WHY are calling on the 4 quarters/corners important in magical ritual, to YOU, personally?

no no, i will NOT babble more.
i swear :)
*off to be quiet now*
g'nite :)

++

Re: mothers!
ana
"You control how you deal with your mother. "

oh yes. absolutely. and it has been difficult for me to get a grip in this fact and be able to ride that wave with any sort of grace at all (really, i can only *dream* of grace at this point...i've just learned i have a surfboard and that i am in the ocean!)

thank you :) it is a good thing that i have met a few of you because of this. yes yes! i give thanks.
but you know, i'd probably cut off my own head (and almost have) to have my mom back like how she was.
i mean, even just a month ago she was at my house, the 1st time i'd seen her in a few years!
and she was so "normal" and she braided my hair, and i made her dinner. and things seemed like they were finally going to be ok...i YEARN for this. i'd almost give my soul (but not quite) to be able to settle my head into her lap and revel in the smell of "mama". *tears tears tears*
it's hard for me to rectify these "2 people" she is.
i know there are some people who would choose to have a blind eye to the side of her that is "bad" ...but i cannot have a relationship with a person who lies daily about who they are.
at least not at this time of my life...

i'm sorry you have had trouble with your mom, too.
i hope things are better for you now..

+++

oh, i DO feel less alone with all of you here :)
thanks infinitely :)

my mom and i have always been reversed roles.
she has always said to me since practically birth "why are you the mother and i am the daughter?"
it's most bizarre.
and i say to her " ya, why AM i the mother and you the daughter? YOU should be giving ME the answer to that since YOU are the mother!" but alas...she doesn't answer because she's NOT the mother...
*mind befuddled*

alzheimers. that is brutal.
my heart goes out to you...

thank you for reaching out to me and making me feel less alone. it TRULY does help.
i wish there was something i could say in return...

+++

"pay forward"
yes :) i subscribe to that :)

i make it my daily intent to add to the grand scheme of things each day, in every way i can.
(some days i sluff off, admittedly..ok maybe more than i care to admit)
but basically, i do try very much so :)

you definitely have a LOT of good karma coming your way right now :)

 

10:35pm

something i wrote in someone's journal..but i post it here, as well, in case anyone in ana2 has any input on this, too (like btripp)

"i don't even know you that well yet, but i can tell already that you are a treasure. :)

i wish that "she" was just that...a "she" (to me) on the internet and not the woman who birthed me and raised me and who i will have to deal with probably for the rest of her life, here and there. bah.

but yes, you are absolutely right. in all you say here.
this sentence especially struck a chord in me:
"but we can control what matters most, and that is how we deal with one another as people". yes SO right on. thank you for that :)

i am wondering if you could help me (or recommend to me a site or a book where i can get some more info) come up with an unbinding spell. or...you know...some sort of ritual that i could do to make the bonds that are between "she" and i less bonding (for lack of a better word).
i don't even know if it's possible...since the ties that bind between a mother and daughter are so tight. and we are intrinsically forever bound by our DNA.

i do have "positive magic" by marion weinstein (love it!), and i did have "the spiral dance" (but just couldn't get into it...as it seemed to onesidedly female for me, at that time), and i have the bucklands complete book of witchcraft (but that is just too strict and has that uppity ceremonial thing to me that reminds me too much of church).

i think i can probably make up my own "spell", but i thought i'd get your input, too, and the input of anyone else reading this, as i am not very experienced in this.

i'm more of the new age "creative visualization", "focusing on your intent" kind of thing. where it's all in my mind and not actually in the form of a ritual. but for this, i think i'd really like some sort of ritual with it to make it more concrete feeling.

so, i am open to anyone's suggestions and input on this."

8:47pm

ok, one more thing....it is really helping me to gather just a few more pieces of this puzzle together.
and this piece here is very important because i don't like it when my intuition tells me one thing, and then my mom tells me another thing. that makes me not trust my own intution. and that is bad.

remember when i told you that my mom had joined a sci fi community whose moderator had banned her. and then my mom writes to belle, the moderator:

"Lily is back. She doesn't slink in so no one notices her. This time she walks boldly through the door and up to Belle who is standing at the java machine, and she whispers something in Belle's ear. She whispers because she is going to ask her for something that is a secret, a secret you would only ask for from someone you love. Belle leans over as Lily whispers:
"I don't want any of that Jamacian Blue or kona Gold. I'd like a cup of Celebes Kalossi, that coffee from the island of Sulawezi in Indonesia...... and don't tell me you don't have it because i know you do!"
Belle puts the formula in the machine and Lily turns to the others.
"Hi she says, "I'm back from my time traveling, for now anyway. As you all know I've had a bit of a struggle along the way."

(my mom is "lily"). this community is kind of like a "bar".
well, here, it's right here:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/belles_place/4343.html

based on the callahanian books.

anyway, remember that i pointed out to my mom that was a creepy stalker thing to do?
to go whisper in the ear like that, the whole love thing...and then also extra creepy because my mom is making belle do things? making belle lean over the bar, and makes belle make her that drink.
i know that may not seem like a big deal to some of you, especially if you are male and not used to feeling unsafe.
but to have someone, even in text form, "make" your "online persona" DO stuff (especially when they are stalking you), kind of like she has taken over a little doll...well, it just feels very very gross and wrong.

and remember when my mom wrote back to me that "belle" had actually invited her to the community and told her that she loved her? and my mom also told me that the drink she ordered was a special drink that one HAD to whisper into the ear of someone they loved in order for it to work it's magic....because that is the way it is written in the callahanian books. she said huffily, that i just didn't know that because i hadn't read the book.

here is my mom's exact words (the ones in green are mine):

"Fact: anahata invited me to join callahans (i don't know if this is true or not yet)
fact: anahata actually told me recently that she DID love me. Okay, so it blew me away too (i don't know if this is true either, but i highly doubt it)
Fact: it's part of the callahan mystic that you have to whisper the particularily kind of coffee i ordered into the ear of someone who loves you for the magic of it to work, and it's secret formula only works if the recipe is not given away except to someone you love. You'd have to know the callahans books. (that is a lie)
Fact: anahata and i have made our peace with each other" (i highly doubt it since anahata screamed at my mom and banned her)

well, that is a LIE. there is NO such special drink in those books that you have to whisper it into the ear of someone you love in order for it to work it's magic or whatever. that was a bold faced lie. a feeble attempt for my mom to make herself not look like a creepy stalker, to me.

god, how insanely lame!
instead of just looking at her behaviour, she instead just makes up a huge lie to cover it up and make it seem like that was OK to do!
unbelievable!

anyway, i'm glad to find this out. because i KNEW that was a creepy thing to do. and "belle" WAS completely creeped out by it.
i knew it!

oh! and when my mom , very hurridly, went out and bought some callahanians books so she could "be cool". she bought the ones that were last from the series. she bought them completely out of order.
this is SO typical of a narcissist who doesn't pay attention to details like that because they are too absorbed with themselves to notice. it was more important to her just to own ANY of those books than it was to actually research them and buy the FIRST one so she could read the series in order.

not only that, but at one point that my mom was banned from her journal, my mom still emailed her and told her she wanted to buy her a wedding gift! what is my mom's deal???

wtf???

gross gross gross ick ick skin creeping and crawling! aaaaa!
my mom is so creepy! and she is not only creepy but she's a liar!

aaaa!

 

5:09pm

oh, i get it now. DUH!
ontopofit= on top if it

found an entry where she speaks from that journal, and it really says a lot about her in how she interprets this dream and projects her own self into it. verrrrry interesting.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/zeppo/103102.html?thread=4295614

here it is in case it ever gets deleted:

the dream by someone named zeppo:

"What the hell does THAT mean?
Monday night I dreamt that I was dead.
A bodiless ethereal soul wandering a world lacking my person and due to some unnatural desire, I sought out my own grave.
I stared into the face of my headstone with the stark Roman lettering and read the inscription.

Now when I die I had always planned to be cooked not planted thus making the possibility of snappy comebacks from the great beyond more difficult.
Rather than altering my carefully laid plans or waiting until I shove off this mortal coil, I would like to offer twenty American dollars for this little subconscious blip to be commemorated for me in needlepoint, possibly surrounded by festive decor.
Also if anyone cares to take a Freudian stab at it - I am all ears.

I once was here,
but now I aint.
I left you a brush
and a can of paint."

and my mom's response:

Analysis of dream by Dr. Ontopofit
ontopofit
2004-02-12 11:27 (link)
You are feeling ill at ease on some level in your life and wondering where you really fit in. You are also looking back on your life and wondering if you have made the right choices for yourself and, last but not least, you are wondering what people really think about you and whether they will really miss you when you die, if you have had any impact in this world.

and zeppo responds:

"wow, that was pretty cool - you should charge for that.

not to differ, but I am fairly certain I know what people think of me... it's the mobs with the burning torches that gives it away."

and my mom eerily replies:

"Yes indeed there are the masses around you but sometimes even with all that a person can wonder. Like in the dead of night, or even within the subconcious, "What if people knew the real me, would they like me? Do people know who I really am? Do I like what I am, and if I don't do others see it? " Stuff like that."

 

ummm. ya. very very telling and creepy.
probably the only honest thing she's written on lj yet.

another journal she may have had after that one: patmos?

wondering if cassandra58 is my mom, too. she is the only one who has topaz_lake listed as a friend. and she uses the word "dilly-dallying" which my mom always uses. and i'm pretty sure my mom is 58 years old.

curiouser and curiouser.

 

4:11pm

actually made it to the p.o. box! yippee!
now i can cross that off the list of errands looming over me.

3:01pm

ok, off to the p.o. box i go.
it's weird to think that in a month, it could be snowing.

2:19pm

oh, and ANOTHER! topaz_lake!
how many ljs has my mom had? how many do we all still not know about?
goovana, olig, barebspool, parressia, augustine77, willowlady, ontopofit, topaz_lake, third_flower, and which ones have i missed now. i know i've missed some. there have been SO many.

2:10pm

oh ya, 2 other journals my mom had that i forgot to mention. willowlady and ontopofit.
what is the word ontopofit? i have googled it and still it is a mystery as to its meaning.
in that journal, the people who read it, tell me that she told everyone she was a famous persona whose life was in danger and a whole slew of other such bizarreness. and she used a picture of charlize theron for her icon picture until someone pointed that out, and then she deleted that icon.
weirder and weirder and weirder....

i AM getting ready to go outside now and get some errands done.

12:01pm

brrr. it's cold and grey today. 57 degrees.
i must make it to the p.o. box today and send nee her hat.
i'm going to look around my house for extra goodies to stick in her package.
listening to my fave gen 80s radio station on live365 and drinking C2.

 

11:39am

my mother's post today:

"To whom it may concern:
Now hear this: Because words would never be enough, I cannot respond to the abusive and degrading emails I have received from you or to the outrageous and hostile emails that have been posted about my character. I will not now or ever be posting anything publicly that will be used by you to be the center of any controversy between my daughter and I. I will never under any circumstances defame my daughter's name or character, and I denounce publicly the fact that you have chosen to publicly defame my name, and I denounce the fact that you have allowed yourself to be a public bulletin board for any controversy that exists between my daughter and I. And as for the matter itself, if it is easier for my daughter to try to shame me than to deal with the reality of the situation, and if that eases her suffering in any way, then so be it. "

*gag heave barf*

she will never under any circumstances defame my name?
hahaha!
no...she will just follow me around into my friend's journals and tell everyone i treat her like horseshit OR she will just be verbally abusive to me in private, to me, personally and not let anyone know about except for me.

it is easier for me to shame her than deal with the "reality of the situation"?

wow. i'd love to know what she thnks the reality of this situation is!

no scratch that, i don't even want to know anymore...
unbelievable how delusional she is.
it's astounding.

and who is being a public bulletin board for the controversy between my mom and i?
no one is posting publically about it except for her now!
and when she doesn't get the response she wants she runs into note_to_asshat to try and stir up some response in there, too!
(to which no one replies).

and then she also says "'invisible' is my mantra"
haha! RIGHT! oh.my.god. invisible like a giant pink screaming elephant? that kind of "invisible"?

i know i know, i have to stop reading this stuff...
i will i will...i am making progress here and there....
it's hard for me to cut myself off entirely from it since it so constantly on my mind.
but i know, no excuses, no excuses.