anagram 11.05.99

there are some screen shots i took of the promo tori chat real audio clip. i was trying to make a banner to promote it, but i just couldn't come up with a banner that i liked, so i just gave up for now. there is the banner they gave me to put up. but i need a banner that is 320 pixels long, and their banner doesn't look good when resized to that.

this anagram containsd mostly words, so get ready for the onslaught. :) i've been busy trying to make that banner, and also going online trying to find a dress form that i can order to my specfic measurements. no luck in finding that yet. also looking for airline tickets to estonia, looking for a round bed, looking at candles and incense and lamps online. i need lamps badly. i'm into shopping online now cause i don't have a car or my license to drive one. looking at all the different types of polymer clay to make an anadoll. looking to finf a plaster mold kit. i had a great bookmark for one, but now cannot find it :( looking for videos on how to crochet. trying to figure out how to connect my telephone up to the net so people can hear my telephone calls. thinking thinking thinking. writing writing. talking in chat. trying to figure out my bills. clean the house. thinking about starting a band again. i need to move all the anamates onto simplenet cause the bandwidth is too much to put them on ana2 :( playing with the dogs. watching dvds. eating too much junk. doing seraches on my name to see what i'll find. found some really weird stuff that i'll include in here.

i just figured out how to make text lots of different colours on one page, funny i just figured this out NOW, huh? :)

1st here is some stuff i posted in anarchy:

Posted by ANA on November 05, 1999 at 17:07:04:

In Reply to: ohhhhhh.... posted by flower on November 05, 1999 at 15:08:51:

ya, that's what i mean by just writing down 5 things a day you are thankful for. i get myself out of really bad depressions by ( besides going on antidepressants sometimes, too ) making SMALL changes, strides, everyday. like just give myself one easy task a day to do, and if i can just do that one thing, like wash the dishes, or pick up one corner of a room, or just go for a walk for ten minutes, or just stretch for ten minutes, and then each day add to that a few more minutes..i can finally life my head out of depression. i think too many times people try to do too much at once..like when going on a diet or excercising..they take these big drastic changes, and u can't keep it up because the change is too great. like right now i have been sitting on my ass turning into mush for too long and it's starting to make me feel depressed, even though i'm getting lots done on the computer..i've been neglecting my body. so i'm going to try to just start bouncing around the livingroom for ten minutes a day, then stretch for ten minutes, and do that for three days, and every three days, add to that 5 minutes. because i just don't even have the energy or strength to excercise for 1/2 an hour..i'm that out of shape.
but i've always been a person who gets easily overwhelmed by things. and my mom taught me how to get out of my anxiousness that would eventually paralyze me. like, homework would pile up too much on me, and i'd get really far behind, the more far behind i'd get, the more i couldn't take any action to even do any of it cause i wouoldn't know where to start. it would overwhelm me. so she would sit down with me and just takecme one small step by step way through it. till finally i was done and felt much better.
it's weird how i get like that. i get like that still even today..where things will pile up on me and the sheer act of making a phone call to a billing company or something will just paralyze me with fear. but if i just call one person a day, instead of thinking i have to get it all done at once, i can sometimes do it.
and i get so paralyzed i don't even know what order to do it in. that is a major thing that will paralyze me..is i can't figure out where to start. but it doesn't matte where you start usually, it just matters that u start anywhere with one small thing. sometimes that small thing is just something like taking a shower that day.
just start with one small thing you know you can get through, then just do that, and feel a sense of accomplishment for doing that one thing. then let the day go by for the rest of the day..like watching tv is a good one to let the days go by, tv can really save your life when you just need time to heal yourself. i'll bet lots of people would disagree, but tv has been great for me. i have learned a lot from it and it's helped me through some agonizing suicidal times. in fact, renting really frooty comedies have saved me life. like watching the naked gun or monty python. laughter truly is the best medicine :)
if u can do ANYTHING to make your day a little bit brighter..by putting on happy music like the b52s or taking a bubble bath, or burning incense or watching comedy that u like. that will help out too. it does for me. so at the utter depoths of depression a thing i would do to slowly make my way out of the hole is to 1) take a shower 2) burn incense 3) write 5 things i am thankful for 4) do one small task like wash the dishes or take the trash out or organize one drawer or something 5) stretch for ten minutes 6) watch something like "kids in the hall" 7) get dressed into something other than pajamas, even if just putting on some lipstick..just something that is adornment.
then the next day u just move on to another small thing.

don't try to tackle too many things at once, like joining a health club or something really overwhelming.

---------------------------

and i'll just add to that by saying that u really have to DECIDE that being depressed is just BORING and u aren't going to accept that that is the way u want to live anymore.

an example is when i worked at ragstock it was really awful sometimes there, and what everyone would do is complain. we would go to work and then just sit there nad bitch about it the entire time we were there. and that was good for a certain amount of time, it's good to bitch sometimes and just get it out. it's a strange balance of knowing when bitching is a good form of release and when bitching is just keeping you staying stuck within that same energy.

so one day i just got bored out of my mind with complaining. everything that could be complained about had been rehashed over and over to the point that it wasn't getting anything out. it was as out as it was gonna get and from there i just had to stop complaining. even if that was the only action to take, to just stop complaining...that was the first step to getting out of that energy. it had to stop coming out of my mouth. then i just sat in silence and everytime i would feel like complaining i would STOP myself from saying anything, then i would jus MAKE myself think about anything else. something more positive, even if something smallish positive..like u don't have to imagine infinite joy or anything, maybe u could just take a look at a ring you are wearing and admire it. or just think about anything that is even slightly positive..like the last conversation u had that was pleasant...anything.
then just slowly recondition yourself.

but then sometimes i get to the point where i have to bitch again, and you'll see that when it happens in here...i'll just go OFF on a tangent and release my anger. sometimes it's good to get angry and just be really "politically incorrect" about it ( in an environment where that is not going to hurt anyones feelings..that is a whole different subject...how to release your anger without taking it out on anyone )

like, today i was trying to excercise..just by jumping up and down like a dork around my living room ...and i put on kraftwerk, i wanted something happy...but my body just wouldn't MOVE to it right...sometimes i ma a really good dancer..but i can always tell when my energy is REALY clogged when i cannot even dance right...like nothing in me is aligned and not even my body will flow. u can tell where you're clogged because that will be the part of the body that will not want to "boogie" lol :)
like my hips won't move if i'm feeling fear....because the lower bodies are about sex and money and survival. if i'm feeling basic survival fear or sexually clogged, my hips will not want to move..or maybe u feel like u can't say what is on your mind...maybe then my neck will be really stiff..like there is something stuck in my throat..or maybe my heart hurts..then my torso will not want to flow...or how i am holding my hands when i dance...if my fists are closed or open..that will say a lot to me as to how i am feeling. "body language" sometimes just by forcing myself to dance with my fingers spread open wide will "open" my fear there nad let the energy come out my fingers..

anyway..now i've really gone into another subject...

anyway...sometimes the best "medicine" is just to stop complaining and that is the first step.
and sometimes the first step IS to complain

good to know the difference between which one wil stop u and which one will start u

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here is something i sent to my mailing list:

i'm up late sorting through my email. i always let it pile up too long, i never reply to anyone, but i keep it all in hope that i'l reply, then it piles up, i get too overwhelmed and i delete it or put it into other folders.
i have the sing "devil in my car" by the b 52's stuck in my head.

i wanted to share this hilarious url that my friend jacqui, from ana2, brought to my attention:

http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/primall/mahir/index.html

u HAVE to go there and see it!
and then darcy, from ana2, showed us this url where there is an article at salon.com on it!

http://www.salon1999.com/tech/log/1999/11/04/mahir/index.html

check this out
http://216.169.122.124/rayn/turkstud.shtml

i have not laughed that hard in ages! tears were streaming down my cheeks! ohmigoddddddd

so funny!!!!!
also another new wonfderful funny thing i have discovered is snackboy at www.thesync.com

i met him at "jennicon" he is the BEST :)

i didn't get as much done today as i did yesterday, i was hoping i'd clean more, but that didn't happen. it was cloudy. whenever it's cloudy i get little done, but yesterday it was sunny and i was just COOKING with energy. it's kind of irritating to me that the amount of sunlight equals how much i get done in a day, usually.

here is part of something i just wrote to tori amos:

it was cool and weird 2 see the clip of u and i promoting the chat.
i made a url for it so it's easier to get to:

hello.to/toriana

it's a forwarding url, u can get one for anything by typing in "i.am" in your browser.

i'm trying to make a banner to promote it, but i can't come up with one i like yet, but i do have it in my caption right now

i'm so excited to see the chat i can't even stand it. it was all such a whirlwind to me i have to watch it to see whgat on earth really happened.

i hope you are doing ok. you were so so tired when i saw you, i hope u are getting enough rest.

i finally found the questions i wrote down to ask u . i don't think i got to ask many of them...it seems i asked a few then each one led into a whole different uiverse. it was over so quickly. i wish we would have had more time to just talk to "warm up"..if u know what i mean. such on odd thing to just sit down and have a conversation while a bunch of lights and people are on you and it's all being taped. i know that sounds like what i do everyday, i guess it is in a way...but since mine is on all day...i have all day..or many days..to warm up to <insert brilliant creative moment >

it's not just like "boom...ok go! talk! conversation! create!" i meander in and out of creativity. that's what i like about my cam, it's like a infinite doodle that leads to a big doodle and sometimes leads to nowhere in particular for days or weeks...then all of a sudden one doodle one day might turn into a really big painting of a sort.

here are the questions i had written down for our interview/conversation.

1) what do u fear most?
2) if you were going to die in one month, what would u do?
3)do u believe that we create our own reality?
4)how do u ground yourself before going on stage?
5)what are your flaws?
6) who inspires you, who are your heros, and if met them , how did that affect u?
7) sculpting energy at yours shows...how do u visualize it?
8)do u remember your dreams? if so, do u have an recurring dreams?
9)do u ever have lucid dreams?
10)have u ever astrally projected?
11)myths, what are your favourites?
12)what are the misconceptions about u?
13) what do u wish to talk about in interviews tha never gets brought up?
14)what kind of questionsa do u wish people asked more of u?
15) what kind of questions irritate u the most?
16)do u believe that sleep is a waste of time?
17)do u believe that we create our own reality ?
18) do u believe that we can "switch" to different realities?
19) how do u deal with jealousy?
20)how do u deal with "hero worship"
21)how do u deal with projection?
22)what are the most common things that people project upon u that is not anything to do with u?
23)i believe that if u follow minute by minute what would be the most joyful thing to do as each moment comes, that is the "path" of most "abundance". have i found this to be true?
24)tell me about your fascination with astrology
25)do u ever pray?

those are most of the questions..then there are questions within those questions that i didn't write out specific enough because it's so hard to put into words.

it's cold in my apartment and i'm hungry for smoke oysters. luckily i have some :)
man, that sushi we ate was incredible. what was the name of that restaurant so i can go back there?

i have been playing with polymer clay lately...clay that is plastic. it gets hard when u bake it.
i really have been wanting to make a doll in my image with it's own acessories..little laptop and cam and stuff...but i don't have the $ to pay anyone to sculpt it for me or all the thngs u need to do it..making the mold etc..it seems a very complicated and expensive process
( oh, i saw that article where they mentioned the woman that makes tori dolls! intense! )
my dolls will be light hearted dolls....i want to make dolls of my dogs to go with somehow
anyway..i've re-stumbled upon polymer clay..u can get it at any craft store and i found a place i can order it online. it comes in every colour imaginable, or glow in the dark, or glitter, etc. then u can paint it too.
but it's more complex than i thought..there are SO many kinds of polymer clay, i didn't realize, some are easier to paint on...etc...
and i can make molds from this clay. so if i can figure out how to do it, i can make my own little doll factory :)

oh, and i'm so pissed, i brought my cd to give 2 u when i was in NYC, and i forgot 2 give it 2 u...is there an address i can send it 2 u?

i hope i did not info-overload u when i saw u...i get so excited and i see the "window of oppurtunity" and i cram in everything through the window i can!
my band i was with for 11 years would always be amused at this, because our practices were 3/4ths of us all talking and haring stories. we'd play 1/2 a song then i'd go, "oh i forgot to tell u about <insert thing>!!!" i always have so much to convey and show...that is why my cam is such a good thing for me because i find out about all this cool stuff, or think all these thoughts..and i can constantly be showing everyone worldwide all about it at all hours of the day!
and it's cool since i'm slowed down through a 33.6 modem, people can take me in at a speed they can handle and digest at their leisure, where as if u see me in the flesh i'm a big crazed thing of energy.

so i hope i did not overload u, i know u were already on overload from your big crazy day...so i'm sorry if i added to that in a bad way in any way.
my biggest fear i have is that i would ever be a burden on anyone. i so much do not want to be a drain on anyone's energy, and i fear that maybe i did that to u because i was so excited about everything i could not just slow down and see how tired you were. you are so gracious.

i swear i can be mellow :)
but my constant fear is like tha REM lyric "oh no, i've said too much..i haven't said enough"
that is my battle because i just want to convey everything "correctly" and "clearly"

and now i just want to apologize for being paranoid! argh. it is so silly really. so much energy i put into wondering
but if u could see my face as i type this...it would make more sense to see my silly faces and hand gestures that go with these sentences :)

i overthink everything and i have all the time in the world to overthink it.

and now i am thinking about tomotoes and how much i wish i had some to eat....i looked over at a big red ball of transparent polymer clay and it remided me of tomatoes. i was rolling it around in my hand when i was semi-watching tarkovsky's nostalghia
and my dogs are upside down on the couch. i really wish u could meet my dogs they are such incredible beings, they teach me so much about being in the present moment, something i need to learn to get a lot better at!

my dogs, japanese chins, were worshipped as gods in ancient china. they were kept in temples in bird cages and fed sake to keep them small.
they don't bark hardly ever. they are little fluff monster love beings :)

ok, that's probably enough typing for now.....
i'll send u some more pictures from my cam soon.
i redesigned anacam, it looks so much better now

mucho amour,
me

---------------------------

here is a little article i found on my in my local paper Pioneer Planet that was out November 1st and i didn't even know until today:

Magazine says Ana's Webcam is really unique
november 1st, 1999, pioneer planet

by JAMES ROMENESKO

Twin Cities musician Ana Voog isn't just showing off her life (or her body) to the world via her Anacam -- she's ``at the center of a unique experiment'' with her Webcam.
Really.
That's what Yahoo! Internet Life magazine says of the 33-year-old woman's online adventures.
``Using fairly basic technology -- a few video cameras that regularly upload real-time images to her Web site -- the diminutive Voog has transformed her life into one of the longest continuously running shows in the world, a radical online version of reality programming,'' the magazine says in an October profile of Voog. (Read it at www.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9910/room.html .)
Voog's act is more than a few cameras in her home, though. She now shares her life with Netizens through her message boards and mailing list. In addition, there's a Webring devoted to her, too -- a collection of sites about her maintained by fans.
Voog left Minnesota in mid-October to hang out with the Web's other famous exhibitionist, Jenni of JenniCam, in New York City. During her travels, Voog hooked up with musician Tori Amos for an interview and Webcast.
Pictures of the two are at
members.aye.net/~mikewhy/anavoog.html

------------------------------

here is something i posted at peepongmoe.com in reply to some guy who said that webcams weren't anything special or important or brilliant, that all they were was "ftping a picture"

on Saturday, 30 October 1999, at 6:58 p.m., in response to Re: article at foxnews.com about webcams,posted by ANA on Saturday, 30 October 1999, at 5:29 p.m.

actually, i will stick my neck out here and say that cams are brilliant and important :) i think they bring the world closer together, i think they make us smile more, make us less lonely, help us understand the world better, bring friends together that would have never met otherwise, make us think sometimes, stretch our imaginations, and at the very least turn some of us on enough to have an orgasm. and we all know that all those things above help us lead healthier lives, both physically and emotionally. i mean, even owning a pet lowers people's blood pressure and reduces stress :) and i think those are the things that make life worth living. and i think those things are all important :) and if a simple thing like ftping a picture can do that, i think it's a brilliant ! :)

-------------------------

and here is a VERY long and VERY weird thread psychoanalyzing me that i found while doing a search on my name in altavista!

Posted by ANA on November 05, 1999 at 17:47:22:

i found this weird bbs. what on earth????
http://graphics.lcs.mit.edu/~becca/enneagram/movieboard/intro.html

http://graphics.lcs.mit.edu/~becca/enneagram/movieboard/wwwboard.html
Posted by Jan den Breejen on June 12, 1999 at 07:58:59:

In Reply to: ANA VOOG: 'I am introverted: a weird girl who prefers to be alone' posted by Jan den Breejen on June 12, 1999 at 07:54:30:

: Now what enneatype is artist Anna Voog? E5? The site looks rather clinical; anatomy in technical details like an encyclopedia of the human body. She observes herself and writes it down. E5? Let me know what you think of her probable enneatype.
: Jan
-----------------------------
Posted by Andy on June 12, 1999 at 13:23:08:

In Reply to: Re: ANA VOOG: 'I am introverted: a weird girl who prefers to be alone' posted by Jan den Breejen on June 12, 1999 at 07:58:59:

I think you should relaxe removing my comment's, just because you
see them as inapropriate.

I don't think she is a five. Perhaps a social 4w3 of some kind.

I know someone that look's extremly like her visually. Don't know her type.

Look how she present's herself as some kind of person from space. At
the same time as a clown, but with a serios edge.

I can't see fivish motivations in this page.

So why do you mean she is a five ?

-----------------
Posted by Jan den Breejen on June 13, 1999 at 10:17:08:

In Reply to: Re: ANA VOOG: 'I am introverted: a weird girl who prefers to be alone' posted by Andy on June 12, 1999 at 13:23:08:

Hi Andy
Apart from the E5 impression I stated (clinical aura); I must say I am not sure (I used ?); but if she was an E4 I would have expected a more dark sphere around the site. Also I have an hypothesis that E5 is really a person who likes interaction but is to shy to choose the direct way of face to face communication; thereby preferring telephone, e-mail etc. So I find it interesting to see the comments of forum guests on Ana's enneatype. She occasionaly paints herself blue; which is an E4 thing to attract attention by being weirdly different. In fact I started with typing her as E4 but feel that this is not the right type. I'm not sure; so I would like to get much feedback....
Jan

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Posted by Jan den Breejen on June 13, 1999 at 10:25:16:

In Reply to: Re: ANA VOOG: 'I am introverted: a weird girl who prefers to be alone' posted by Jan den Breejen on June 13, 1999 at 10:17:08:

++++ E5 's like to be alone; E4's don't; that's why they feel misunderstood; they complain that others don't accept them. Thats the opposite of wanting to be alone!
Jan
------------------

Posted by Andy on June 13, 1999 at 12:31:08:

In Reply to: Post Scriptum posted by Jan den Breejen on June 13, 1999 at 10:25:16:

I am introverted: a weird girl who prefers to be alone

I would say that, prefers does not mean she is not a four.

Could be she prefers beeing alone because she feels self aware, vulnurable
and shy, like many fours do. And love all the attension she
can get over the net whitout exposing this. I can't see
how a five would indulge in sush a page. But I have only spent like 10 minutes on
her page. I think it's foolish not to see trough "the surface" .

But as I said after 10 minutes she look's like a four to me.

She seems also very intrested of the nature of things, somethings that
is an "IN" thing to do. I view the true introverted intuitives
as mainly fours, not fives. I think MBTI test's are not very valid at
determining a dominant function of a person.

I also can't see why a five would make a such page, I guess the five is
that felix dude with a page that was to advanced for my browser by the way.
----------------
Posted by Jan den Breejen on June 15, 1999 at 04:10:48:

In Reply to: Re: Post Scriptum posted by Andy on June 13, 1999 at 12:31:08:

It's interesting that E4's seem to pretend to be introverted; so they can sit in a corner with sad eyes in a crowded room; but they absolutely want to be at the party! (as a typical E5 would NOT; R5's want to keep there lives secret...); so when Ana says shes introverted it makes her exhibitionistic site even MORE weird. AND: we tend to give her even more attention (just like Andy and I do now; were trapped too!!) Can Ana's style be compared to the flamboyant gay parades in Amsterdam and other cities in which they show off with weird erotic clothes? Eroticism as a means to escape from the dark feelings in your head to a state of imagined bliss?
Jan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Andy on June 15, 1999 at 15:42:30:

In Reply to: Re: Post Scriptum: the E4 way of drawing attention posted by Jan den Breejen on June 15, 1999 at 04:10:48:

: It's interesting that E4's seem to pretend to be introverted; so they can sit in a corner with sad eyes in a crowded room; but they absolutely want to be at the party!

They want to be the center of attension to, but can be to vulnurable to
handle the attension once they get it in their face. Ironically it's
the social subtype of fours that want attension most, but also got biggest
problems handling it once they get it. If not only that as you have implied
their "introvertedness" are more as a defence mechanism to hide how vulnurable
they are.

True introverts are typically agressive under lack of balance. Beeing vulnurable
mainly belongs to extrovert's, and because of this it kind of conflict's
with the general idea that fours are introvert's. But IN-s got their
SP- wannabe side, right Jan ?

Look at Michael Jackson, an exellent example on an SP wanna be.

(as a typical E5 would NOT; R5's want to keep there lives secret...); so when Ana says shes introverted it makes her exhibitionistic site even MORE weird.

I generally don't take a persons words as good fish if they say things like
that. But of course she can be introverted, and still want the world at
her feet's. I wonder how a very healthy four in emotional balance appears,
introverted or extroverted. I think it depends on the wing, simple enough.

AND: we tend to give her even more attention (just like Andy and I do now; were trapped too!!)

Actually I don't concider it that, just if she know about this typing.
Can't you post her a message Jan, ask if want to study the enneagram.
But I guess she got a counter or something that gives her info on how many
people reading her page, so if she got no responce she would probably
find something else to get attension with.

Can Ana's style be compared to the flamboyant gay parades in Amsterdam and other cities in which they show off with weird erotic clothes? Eroticism as a means to escape from the dark feelings in your head to a state of imagined bliss?
: Jan

Never seen it, but I guess this gay parade thing is like demostrating to the world who you are.
Like beeing indifferent to what people should mean about it. I would view
it more as a sixish phenomena that a fourish. Together we are strong or something like that.

What she displays is more like a need of beeing evaluated, looked at,
admired, probably she are addicted to all the attension she get's, and
can't stop. It's probably not long until she is having sex live, just
for the kick of it. She probably first will do her boyfried felix,
then when the kick is over, she will eighter get in one more and make a bridge or
sandwitch, depending on the mood. What do you say about that Jan ?

Do you think I would buy cheap clothes if nobody saw it ?

Or would you use a dress at your picture if you did not liked the
impression it gives ?

About cars, Saab is not status car, Porche is for impotent men.
Just people who think they are better than others drive Saab...:)

The real stuff are a Ferrari, then a helicopter, then a private jetfly ,
then climb mount everest, and you should be able to convince yourself
you are something, but unfortanatly it does not work.

Myself I would be happy driving a black corvette trough the desert of
Autralia.

Tell me do you got a small flower in your office you make a joint from
every once in a while ?
---------------
Posted by Jan den Breejen on June 16, 1999 at 03:37:08:

In Reply to: Re: Post Scriptum: the E4 way of drawing attention posted by Andy on June 15, 1999 at 15:42:30:

+++ Can Ana's style be compared to the flamboyant gay parades in Amsterdam and other cities in which they show off with weird erotic clothes? Eroticism as a means to escape from the dark feelings in your head to a state of imagined bliss?

: Never seen it, but I guess this gay parade thing is like demostrating to the world who you are.
: Like beeing indifferent to what people should mean about it. I would view
: it more as a sixish phenomena that a fourish. Together we are strong or something like that.

++++ Here you make a point I've allways wanna put to the forum; in the gay scene there seem two enneatype categories over-represented; E4's (quiet gays) and E6's. Perhaps there is a relation between the intense need to have contacts for unconscious 'security' needs and the compulsion to attach yourself to any nice person around (dependent personality.) The flamboyant gay parades in Amsterdam are also a symptom of 'we' versus 'they' group thinking mode of E6's; the Amsterdam Gay Games is a good example. If this is true than gay-ism and nazi-ism have perhaps more in common than they would like to know?

: What she displays is more like a need of beeing evaluated, looked at,
: admired, probably she are addicted to all the attension she get's, and
: can't stop. It's probably not long until she is having sex live, just
: for the kick of it. She probably first will do her boyfried felix,
: then when the kick is over, she will eighter get in one more and make a bridge or
: sandwitch, depending on the mood. What do you say about that Jan ?

+++ Well, Andy it really doesn't interest me at all; can't help it.

: Do you think I would buy cheap clothes if nobody saw it ?

+++ this would be very uncommon behavior for an E7 like you! (a little narcissism is present in many E7's)

: Or would you use a dress at your picture if you did not liked the
: impression it gives ?

+++ no; E1's are more image-oriented (good boy) than many people think; I would even use the word vain to denominate many E1 politicians.
That's why the environment likes it when an E1 makes a mistake....

: About cars, Saab is not status car, Porche is for impotent men.
: Just people who think they are better than others drive Saab...:)

: The real stuff are a Ferrari, then a helicopter, then a private jetfly ,
: then climb mount everest, and you should be able to convince yourself
: you are something, but unfortanatly it does not work.

: Myself I would be happy driving a black corvette trough the desert of
: Autralia.

++++ I know an E7 woman who is addicted to going to Australia; fusion cuisine; adventure etc!

: Tell me do you got a small flower in your office you make a joint from
: every once in a while ?
++++ No; my Calvinist upbringing in conjuntion with my E1 basis style seems to prevent this....but I like French wine. And research shows its good for your health too (not an argument that would interest an E7.) I am sure however YOU would like the sensational seductions of Amsterdam!!

++++ Andy; tell me; I've seen many E7's whose outer bravado seemned to disappear when they were confronted with things like memories of a friend who died (emotional stuff); and then break out in tears very easily. This seems like a big contrast; perhaps its related to the bi-polar thing extreme E7's have? Do you recognize this 'sudden weeping' phenomenon with yourself (or with other E7's?)

Jan
-------------------
Posted by Andy on June 17, 1999 at 17:13:39:

In Reply to: Re: Post Scriptum: the E4 way of drawing attention posted by Jan den Breejen on June 16, 1999 at 03:37:08:

: +++ Can Ana's style be compared to the flamboyant gay parades in Amsterdam and other cities in which they show off with weird erotic clothes? Eroticism as a means to escape from the dark feelings in your head to a state of imagined bliss?

:
: : Never seen it, but I guess this gay parade thing is like demostrating to the world who you are.
: : Like beeing indifferent to what people should mean about it. I would view
: : it more as a sixish phenomena that a fourish. Together we are strong or something like that.

: ++++ Here you make a point I've allways wanna put to the forum; in the gay scene there seem two enneatype categories over-represented; E4's (quiet gays) and E6's. Perhaps there is a relation between the intense need to have contacts for unconscious 'security' needs and the compulsion to attach yourself to any nice person around (dependent personality.) The flamboyant gay parades in Amsterdam are also a symptom of 'we' versus 'they' group thinking mode of E6's; the Amsterdam Gay Games is a good example. If this is true than gay-ism and nazi-ism have perhaps more in common than they would like to know?

It's easy to say things like that, and I think people should not need to read things like you are
nr... and not unlikely gay or lesbian because of that. That's taking
typing to a new low if you ask me.

But with that said, I am not saying you are wrong, holywood tend to be as
stereotying as you do.

And I seem to stress the hell out of sixes by
the way. It's like often when I speak to sixes, I get these mistrusting
questions, look's, it's all uncomfortable, like they don't belive me.
When this happen I smile even more because I find it rather funny, and
things just wind up, like negative cirkel, more smile...more distrust...
I was in a meeting for some days ago, and this six kept asking all these
questions, they was all about things that could go wrong, and as soon
someone had explained why things did not had to go wrong, just
more questions arrived, I WAS nearly GOING CRAZY, but I managed to shut
up. I am somethimes impressed of myself in situations like that, not
only did I manage not to laught, but also managed to shut up.

I think that is a difference between six and seven. six think's about
all that could go wrong, and prepare for the worst, they lack the
thinking and intuision to see positive "solutions" to the questions , while a seven
"just know" that whatever happens it will go okay. And repress any
thinking like the six indulge in, because it disturbes the well being.
Like..."It cant go wrong".

Since we are talking of sixes, I think riso are right that they do
seem to introvert the feeling function, just as one extrovert's thinking,
so that could explain why you seems to be so negative about sixes.

: : What she displays is more like a need of beeing evaluated, looked at,
: : admired, probably she are addicted to all the attension she get's, and
: : can't stop. It's probably not long until she is having sex live, just
: : for the kick of it. She probably first will do her boyfried felix,
: : then when the kick is over, she will eighter get in one more and make a bridge or
: : sandwitch, depending on the mood. What do you say about that Jan ?

: +++ Well, Andy it really doesn't interest me at all; can't help it.

I am not convinced.

: : Do you think I would buy cheap clothes if nobody saw it ?

: +++ this would be very uncommon behavior for an E7 like you! (a little narcissism is present in many E7's)

Cheap clothes that look expensive, actuaally for a couple of week's ago
I travelled to another country, to buy real cheap clothes, and a lot of other stuff.
Mostly food and snack. I does that every once in a while.

: : Or would you use a dress at your picture if you did not liked the
: : impression it gives ?

: +++ no; E1's are more image-oriented (good boy) than many people think; I would even use the word vain to denominate many E1 politicians.
: That's why the environment likes it when an E1 makes a mistake....

But is it "good boy" to use a dress, isnt that mostly the bad guys that
use dress ?

I have only used dress only 3 or 4 times (my only one, a green one by the way) to keep some peace, and hate it.

: : About cars, Saab is not status car, Porche is for impotent men.
: : Just people who think they are better than others drive Saab...:)

: : The real stuff are a Ferrari, then a helicopter, then a private jetfly ,
: : then climb mount everest, and you should be able to convince yourself
: : you are something, but unfortanatly it does not work.

: : Myself I would be happy driving a black corvette trough the desert of
: : Autralia.

: ++++ I know an E7 woman who is addicted to going to Australia; fusion cuisine; adventure etc!

I am very jelous of my father, he have visited all continent's many times,
and been more around than any other I know.

: : Tell me do you got a small flower in your office you make a joint from
: : every once in a while ?
: ++++ No; my Calvinist upbringing in conjuntion with my E1 basis style seems to prevent this....but I like French wine. And research shows its good for your health too (not an argument that would interest an E7.) I am sure however YOU would like the sensational seductions of Amsterdam!!

: ++++ Andy; tell me; I've seen many E7's whose outer bravado seemned to disappear when they were confronted with things like memories of a friend who died (emotional stuff); and then break out in tears very easily. This seems like a big contrast; perhaps its related to the bi-polar thing extreme E7's have? Do you recognize this 'sudden weeping' phenomenon with yourself (or with other E7's?)

It's funny that you call me an enneagram seven, but you are not the only
one, but I don't think I am so much of a seven. Actually I find typing myself,
not something I do, but I like others to type me funny, anyway I just want to say that if
someone tell me bad news, like once not so long ago my grandfather
told me of someone who had died, and I just had to laught, but I managed
to turn away so he did not see me.

Since I first heard about the enneagram, I havent improved a cent. That's
for sure, but i don't see the need of improwing anyway.

And yes I can get sudden emotional changes I can laught and suddenly burst
into tears, it's like a feeling of the heart
rising from it's place right up my to neck. This is actually like some kind
of extasy feeling that can in any kind of mood, but because my mood
change fast, it could be the start of the next song that would decide if
I would get this extasy feeling of joy or sadness.

I also start to cry when I read the eight, and four description, and
it's actually quite a emotional thrill to read those decription,
but I have only read riso's descriptions once so far, but I just
bought this two new book's so I am going to see if it have improved.

I can tell you that in the last 2 years I have not read a single book
at all, but I have read some enneagram stuff then.
:
: Jan
---------------
Posted by Dianne on June 15, 1999 at 10:48:11:

In Reply to: Re: Post Scriptum: the E4 way of drawing attention posted by Jan den Breejen on June 15, 1999 at 04:10:48:

I don't see Ana as E5 at all. She's not an observer; she wants to be observed! Seems she would love being analyzed and having people try to figure her out.

Her exhibitionism is her art. Definitely E4.
-----------
Posted by Jan den Breejen on June 16, 1999 at 03:39:50:

In Reply to: Re: Post Scriptum: the E4 way of drawing attention posted by Dianne on June 15, 1999 at 10:48:11:

Yeah; you're right. E4 exhibitionism is polar to E5 privacy. Somehow people behave exactly how they are not; but this seems not to be the case with Ana on hindsight. Thanks for your feedback.
Jan

-----------
Posted by Jan den Breejen on June 13, 1999 at 13:35:19:

In Reply to: Re: Post Scriptum posted by Andy on June 13, 1999 at 12:31:08:

Andy
OK; thats fair enough. Since the purpose of this posting was to try to get some responses from other forum guests; I withold from further discussion for a moment.
Jan

By the way: the Big Four MBTI is indeed a lousy test; the feeling scale is very wrong indeed. I use the Big Five now for 2 years an am perfectly happy with it.
-------------

Posted by Jan den Breejen on June 13, 1999 at 10:17:08:

In Reply to: Re: ANA VOOG: 'I am introverted: a weird girl who prefers to be alone' posted by Andy on June 12, 1999 at 13:23:08:

: So why do you mean she is a five ?