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so much very
emotional stuff has been happening in my lief right now. i wanted 2 put in
here the stuff i've been writing in my "read my mind" section. but
that site has been down all day :( but i have VOLUMES of stuff 2 grab from
there. and i have volumes 2 say about much that has been said. but i have
not responded yet because i had 2 recharge a bit...and really i don't even
know if i could write another thing back at the people who are so totally
fuct...because ....what i can i do anyway? it is so utterly utterly....evil.
most of what everyone had 2 say about what i wrote was good. it's a shame
that i cannot just let the bads posts go. but they are so utterly utterly
evil..i don't know if i can bear it.
so until i can nab all that stuff and stick it in here..i will put this giagntic monstrous thread from the camgirl bbs in here. since i need to document it because it is so vile and evil on SO many levels that i cannot even write about it yet because i need to gather my energy and formulate my thoughts.
so here is the big big big evil thread from there, because i need more people to be witness 2 this:
Cam Girl Thumbs
Posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 4:30 a.m.
I'm sure you have all seen Isa's new toplist .. I don't begrudge a person for wanting traffic but I do dislike the way it was handled ... her choice yes I know.
Below is Isa and my correspondance ... start from the bottom up ... did aanyone really complain that it was too hard to make a thumbs page and ask her to turn it into a toplist ... or is it really as it seems and just a way for her to make more traffic out of her collegues by making them compete even more.
I think its time for me to run some cgi against all the toplists and even out the playing field a little more ... I hate greedy people :(
feel free to flame me ... I dont give a shit.
You mean rather than them actually doing the job you're turning it into a "bring me more traffic"site??? So if I want to do more thumbs pages I'm going to be penalised for not sending you more trafic than others??
Why not just have your top 7 referrers and leave everything as it?? I don't for a minute believe anyone could say it is too hard to make a new set of thumbs every now and then ... takes me less than 5 minutes ... so instead of penalising people who are lazy you want to penalise people like me who make the effort regularly??? Thats insane ... I can see quite plainly you are only interested in traffic to yourself ... not promoting people fairly. Please remove my links from your page. I'm not interested in participating anymore.
----- Original
Message -----
From: Isabella
To: Bernadette
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Account Added
> hey b...
>
> u don't have to use it but it can help to keep your thumbs pages up
> longer... girls were complaining that it was too difficult to create
new
> thumbs pages to keep on top so i changed it to a toplist so that girls
could
> submit fewer galleries and keep theirs on top by sending more traffic
to the
> gallery.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bernadette"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 12:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Account Added
>
>
> > do I need to start using the counter script thing or can I just
leave the
> > original button as is for your site ... I really hate top lists
and only
> > subscribe to them as a last resort as you know ... would refusal
to use a
> > toplist counter mean I couldnt post thumbs pages with you?
> >
> > Sorry for being different but I have my reasons and I like to stay
true to
> > them.
> >
> > B
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 3:51 PM
> > Subject: Account Added
> >
> >
> > > Your account has been added to our top TGP list.
> > >
> > > You can begin sending hits to the list at any time.
> > > Use the following URL for your links:
> > >
> >
> http://www.camgirlgallery.com/cgi-bin/masterpost/track.cgi?action=in&id=bern
> > adet
> > >
> > > To post gallerys, you will need to use the following login
> > > information. At the following URL you can also edit your
> > > account and view your account statistics:
> > >
> > > Login At:
> > http://www.camgirlgallery.com/cgi-bin/masterpost/accounts.cgi?login
> > > Username: ******
> > > Password: ******
> > >
> > > Make sure you write down your username and password!
> > >
> > > If you have any questions contact isa@isabellacam.com
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Webmaster
> > >
>
>
------------------
Posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 4:42 a.m., in response to Cam
Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 4:30 a.m.
bernadette... the entire project has always been about traffic, when did anyone say it wasn't?? u think i sit up here every night of my life adding girls and checking stats to place everyone where they need to be manually just for the fun of it?? the whole concept came about as a way to create traffic for camgirls... of course those who send more should get more in return! u consistently send about 12 to 20 hits a day (even tho the link was on your main index that u say gets more traffic than any of us... several girls send 200 to 600 a day and YES, i think they should benefit from that more than u who sends next to nothing! what on earth did u think this project was about, all of us sending tons of traffic to the gallery so u could get a free ride?? sorry i spoiled your free source of traffic! changing it to a cgi based toplist keeps it FAIR so that those who want to invest in it will get more in return... go back and read the posts from the beginning... it was intended to be a traffic generator for all of us... yes, i have a few extra links on the page to my site because i spend the time and money to make it happen... the cgi script i am setting up for it cost me $250 not to mention the bandwidth, etc.
-----------------
Posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 4:56 a.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 4:42 a.m.
as a point of reference, the gallery sends out as much as 3000 uniques to new posts and up to 1000 a day for as long as the posts are in the top 10 to 15... so u were getting as much as 10,000 viewers sent from other camgirls in trade for about 200 of your own viewers... yes, i hate greedy people, too! i can see why u are upset about this...
for those of u who want to know more, i am changing the system so that u can add your own thumbs pages every day if u like and can play around with sending traffic to get up higher and keep your pages at the top of the list... i will be playing around with different formats to try to make sure the system is fair and beneficial to everyone who isn't just trying to get a free ride... i am always willing to help girls who want advice on how to use the gallery to get great traffic back... currently it sends WAY more than any other source next to topcams according to my stats and several girls i've talked to... and the traffic isn't bad traffic like from most tgp sites out there...
-------------
Posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 5:35 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 4:56 a.m.
In the last 6 weeks (42 days) you've sent 218 hits total to the index pages ... not 10,000 like you claim.
As I see it you can recycle and recycle traffic to your hearts content ...thats why I don't promote toplists ... they just make each site compete against each other more and more for the same old stale traffic ... which most people of course need just to survive ... each top list however leeches more and more and splits up that traffic into even more fragments over and over.
Nobody is actually creating or adding anything at all ... no value is added ... it's like the stock market in an extrapolated sort of way ... everyone feeding capital but creating nothing ... feeding the director at the end who is laughing his way to the bank. I spent the time to create new material for viewers to see ... your page says "Free cam thumbs" ... not "Recycled Traffic" ... I made new thumbs as per the concept. People should compete by creating better sites ... that's how they get more members and better resign rates ... rather than more advertising, more recycling, rebilling and all of the other money/traffic oriented non creative solutions. Simply, a better site gets more people. I had sort of hoped that if you'd done it honestly you'd encourage people to post more thumbs to compete ... rather than make them recycle more traffic and slow down the productivity ... if people come visit my site frequently its because they like what they see ... if I'm not sending you many hits its because you have to compete with the rest of the stuff on that little banner farm of mine on the front page ... I hope that proves how fruitless the entire thing is ... I find it funny you say there are people sending you a whole 200 hits ... the post I put on Marks last week brough 45,000 hits to the index page ... which takes me back to your earlier post that you told me to read.
Your alleged reason for putting up the thumbs page was because the other guys wouldn't post your stuff ... you claimed they didnt like camgirls. Well I get mine up consistently every 14 days or so as I bother with it. But now that you have a site for thumbs you are deciding that its not about getting thumbs up ... its about recycling traffic. Your idea as good intentioned as it may have been will eventually down grade into a fragmented piece of junk like the others for one very very simple reason that seperates the toplists from the thumbs lists ... the punter ... he visits to see new material ... and if he sees it slowing down and less new material (which you are claiming is your reason) he'll visit less often and there'll be less material ,... hence why all the thumbs sites you see offer their top spots to the most frequent posters ... not those that send the most traffic ... funny how they are the most successful ... those that produce the best sites from the punters point of view generally are.
Either way there is no hard feelings, I'm not desperate for the traffic, I'm happy celebrating my best ever month :)))) ... I had just hoped, as always, people would try the highest common denominator approach rather than the lowest.
I'll go shut up and hide now. I'm sure there are valid arguments on both sides and I'm not interested inj a debate like previous times ... I just felt strongly about this issue and thought I'd bring attention to it.
B
PS: I just ran a 64K proxy script against two topsites and it seems to work against both very simply ... is that a wrong thing to do? if so why? I'm curious about the philosophical implications before I proceed any further ... I'm sure the Sherriff of Nottingham thought Robinhood a criminal too ... I ve soooo longed to put an end to this top list recycling crap and force competition to more productive means.
----------
Posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 6:41 a.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 5:35 a.m.
bernadette, are u insane or do u just pretend to be for the enjoyment of others? do u think u are making points with everyone by threatening to attack my server with a script? go ahead and do as u like, i'm not going to change what i have planned because u are threatening illegal activity... and what the hell about me choosing to change the format of my site would drive u to get so emotional and behave this way???
yesterday u sent 7 people to camgirl gallery... that was out of over 6000 uniques sent by other camgirls... do u think that because u send a page of pictures in every so often that u deserve a free lunch that the rest of us will pay for? perhaps i should just run the site without any links so that i can work my butt of getting it done every day and girls can work to create pages and no one will ever see them?
----------
Posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 7:13 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 6:41 a.m.
I'm not threatening you with anything illegal ... that's stupid.
The cache script just registers hits by hitting them at random intervals from diffent proxies ... it even retains cookies :) ... nothing illegal about it at all, its just a very sucky thing to do but no more sucky (IMHO) than what topsites do already ... it just basically scores points just like using a web browser like anyone else using the system you put on line ... all the big commercial sites use them regularly (I'm sure you know what I mean, you've been doing this long enough) ... nothing new about it .... it's just not widespread in the cam girl arena yet that I know of (though a couple of camsites are making me suspicious .. eg they ranked as top but didnt even have the toplists banner up anywhere for 3 days, or in the case of one, scored more click thrus than an adult counter they used registered for there entire set of front pages!!!).
You wanted this to be different to the hun and marks and the picture only sites yet you are going down the same route that marrs those sites that you seem to want to be different from. Where's the honesty in that?
Sorry, look it's not you or anything ... Im sure you just want the best for you and everyone else ... I'm just disappointed to see this sort of stuff in the cam girl arena again and again ... it's been a big hate thing of mine for years ... the reason I like people like Moe is he does it fair and even ... so people judge the site on merits ... not on their ability to advertise or recycle the same old traffic. People DON'T leave my site and click on banners ... while that's bad for me getting ranked I'm complimented that they choose to stay and don't look further ... after all isn't that what we're all trying to achieve????
Don't panic ... it's just my opinion ... I'm not after a free ride at all (I sure don't need it) ... I tried to add quality to your site by regularly providing you with pics like you asked and though I got nothing in return by way of traffic I was happy to send you in stuff ... I was simply trying to support you so that you didnt end up going this route. If you were honest in your claim of people saying they couldnt keep up then you could have just asked me and the other regular posters to slow down and save yourself $250 ... but we both know thats a load of baloney and its a simple traffic recycling scam ... but that's fine to for those that like that kind of system. I don't. Furthermore if I was just after a free ride I wouldnt have pulled out ... I'd have just kept sending in pics everyday and kept sitting on the current days lists.
I hope you can see my perspective .... I certainly see yours ... I just don't happen to like it. Again nothing personal OK?
B
-------
Posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 7:43 a.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 7:13 a.m.
oh no, nothing personal... imply i am a liar, a cheat, a scam... nothing personal... so u think that topsites are so bad that you should attack them with cheat scripts instead of using all your amazing traffic to get yourself up on those lists? and they are so bad because... what, the traffic isn't as high quality as word of mouth traffic? yeah, jeez, everyone who runs a topsite should be hung! what the hell do u have against other people trying other things to build traffic? camgirlgallery is my project and i will do what i think is necessary to make it successful enough to help the camgirls in a big way... u don't have anything invested in camgirlgallery but 5 minutes here and there creating thumbs pages that u send it to other tgps and a whole hell of a lot of insults... don't act like submitting thumbs is somehow helpful to me, it is helpful to u and no one else! traffic links to the gallery are what are helpful, the thumb galleries will be submitted when girls feel there is enough traffic to warrant the work to make pages on an ongoing basis... i want to make it work for all of us and the way to do that is experiment with some other methods... it is too much work for me as it is so i need it automated and this was the only script i could find that would do it... in all honesty it is not what i thought it was, i thought it would create a toplist AND a thumbnail gallery separate but it doesn't... i'm not sure how i'm going to deal with it yet but i can tell u i'd like anyone else's opinon other than your's...
have u ever
done or said a single thing in this forum that is helpful or positive? except
for blowing your own horn about every month being your best ever, i don't
know why u feel compelled to crap all over everyone and everything that is
a part of this forum... every time u put your 2 cents in this forum it is
like a dark cloud falls over it. u never have a nice thing to say unless u
are talking about yourself... try to be helpful and considerate of others
once in your life instead of acting like a damn rabid pitbull!
---------
Posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 8:34 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 7:43 a.m.
LOL get a grip and relax ... you are taking it way tooooo personal .. I dont care either way ...
I don't pretend about traffic ... I'm sat on two OC3s and a Sun UE4500 ... how do you think I afford that if I'm not doing well? Sure there's alot of luck in there too, but I pay for the whole kitten kaboodle now. I refuse point blank to use adult counters and give all my user details to their marketing schemes ... how would you like me to prove my membership levels without compromising security or sending traffic away?? Would you like a scan of this months Ibill check perhaps?? I averaged 78 sign ups a day for May (no I dont include 6 month sign ups a 6 memberships ... that's 78 people per day) .... How did you do Last month??
Why not grab the stats for the CEX ring from there ... it shows my lesser pages are visited as frequently as most peoples front pages ... you'll notice my contents page is totally link free .... so you NOW need to ask yourself "Where the hell does she get traffic from and how can she survive with little or no links" ... well I not only survive but I do quite well ... how?? why?? I don't even do streaming or audio or sex .... just plain little old me with no tricks or scams or rebilling etc ... how the hell do I survive? In theory I should have disappeared long ago ... but I didn't ... ask yourself why. Surely word of mouth can't be that good can it? Could it possibly be that people like my site content? my attitude? me?
Oh ... and I don't do dogs ... you can keep those guys if you really want them :) ... besides I'm a cat person :)
---------
Posted by OpalCat on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 10:43 a.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 8:34 a.m.
"kitten kaboodle"
That's "kit and caboodle"
This has been an irritating nitpicky grammar moment brought to you by OpalCat.
---------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 11:57 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by OpalCat on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 10:43 a.m.
cool ... I often wondered what "kitten kaboodle" meant ... out of curiosity ... whats a kaboodle?
-------
Posted by OpalCat on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:17 p.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 11:57 a.m.
"caboodle" means a group of things... like a collection or a lot. So the "kit and caboodle" basically means "the whole thing"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Posted by Kandi on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 11:25 a.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 8:34 a.m.
Okay B
I'm game...
Where DO you get the traffic from???? Or maybe it's just that people don't like me and my attitude as much and my site, and content suck.
And I'm not trying to be rude or mean, but if you know of a better way of doing a top list site or a links site whatever, why don't you do it yourself? Like the old saying goes, if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. You are so knowledged in these fields I bet you'd make a great site out of it too! I'd sign up for it :-)
xoxo
--------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:16 p.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Kandi on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 11:25 a.m.
Well actually
I did say how _I_ do it ... I don't have major links or promote my site by
pushing any particular toplist ... there are a few links here and there, but
nothing I push to get to the top of any list (unless I'm testing one on occasion)
... looking at my stats sets most of my traffic seems to come from oddities
like media/news reports, my old AD&D site (which I closed to start up
ActiveWorlds instead), various peoples homepages (I did a thing to encourage
my members to put my link on their hompages about 18 months ago and its been
small traffic from each but overall more than any list) ... and a whole stack
(prolly this month 45%) from sources that don't even rank more than 10 referrals
(ie don't even make the stats sheet) ... on asking most of the newbies that
come through chat, almost all of them were told by a friend. So I rank word
of mouth very highly ... which means listening to what people like. You aren't
selling your soul or not being yourself by listening ... yuo can simply take
note of how to do things you like in a way that doesnt fly in the face of
potential membership. For example, to rebill or not to rebill doesnt affect
the quality of your cam ... and it certainly may show a rise in continuing
memberships, but yuo are getting members that don't mind rebilling ... ok
that's great ... but you are missing out on a vast majority more that don't
like it. I'm not going to tell you its wrong ... I made the mistake of expressing
that opinion before ... but I do know that the vat majority don't like or
trust people that use it ... and will turn away from joining based on paranoia
alone. Reasonable? Intelligent? Maybe not ... but it is reality. These are
the sort of things I ask the people who are/would be members ... and by doing
so and adjusting my site accordingly (without compromising who I am) I have
seen not only improvement in figures, but also a vast different in the "type"
of person that visits. Word of mouth people are without question far kinder
in their approach, more complimentary, and far more pleasant generally to
chat with ... I don't know why ... it just is. It's all this sort of thing.
I came onto the Net when there was the big "hate frames, hate cookies"
mentality ... while I didnt see the problem with frames if done right, I was
suspicious of cookies (blame programming skills for that) ... so I never liked
them personally ... nor it seems do many others from that time and the attitude
has been passed on and on, illogically maybe, but real nonetheless. So I never
employed them ... I accept them myself these days, but would never use them
because the general public on a whole doesnt like them (the rest typically
dont know they are even getting them) ... so why not design around that with
things like perl? I could go on and on forever but basically it all revolves
around simplicity of "apparent" design, quality, constantly updating
content, nothing that would threaten or cause paranoia. If you want a real
long discussion on this why not come chat some time ... then we could toss
around perspectives.
-----------
Posted by spookyliz on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 5:51 p.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 8:34 a.m.
why do people talk about their stats so much?
---------
Posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 7:23 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 6:41 a.m.
Gotta admit I find this second line VERY funny considering your statements above :)
"support
your favorite camgirl by JOINING HER SITE!
don't let the giant porn corporations take over the exciting world real camgirls
created!
support your local amateur exhibitionist, she's worth every penny"
It's not ok for them to do what they do but it is ok for you to do it .... or it's ok but you hope people don't let them get away with it but they do let you.
I just find it funny when lined up with your comment "This is about traffic"
Surely you can see the funny side of this :)
----------
Posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 7:57 a.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 7:23 a.m.
since when are topsites part of porn corporations? marco who runs topcams, the largest traffic generator for most of us would have to argue with u on that one... the whole point of camgirlgallery is to create a huge traffic pool that will enable the real camgirls to realize the success that u pretend to have... regular tgp sites have huge numbers of corporate porn sites submitting to them... i only allow real camgirls to submit so only they benefit from the traffic... still missing the point?
and on your previous post, give me a break... everyone is so enamored with your site when they get to the index page that they don't dare click on another link... yeah, right. u must be the only one out of all of us that that is true about, huh? strange, i get people who take off because of breast size, color of my hair, i'm too skinny, and i don't do dogs or pee on my carpet... must be your kind, bright and sunny personality that makes them overlook their regular fetishes, perversions and preferences.
---------
Posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 9:29 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 7:57 a.m.
Yes yes, but a traffic pool from WHERE??? it's not fresh traffic ... it's recycled from everywhere and everyone else. There is no fresh traffic ... just that going from camgirl to toplist to camgirl to toplist etc. About the only way you can get huge is by getting more people to send you traffic instead of sending it to another site ... but that just comes back to the sames girls that sent it out the first time ... and so on ad infinitum. Every top list and list site knows that traffic is just split.... thats why, for example, Am Index used to run dozens of list sites ... more sites = more slices of the same apple hence more overall traffic ... only the result is more banners in the farm ... and because each toplist is so split up you need to push one particular site just to get noticed. A clever thing some of the Am Index sites (the ones they owned then) was to push a different one on each site to form the full cycle to guarentee that any traffic they dragged from outside would eventually get trapped in their ring ... this was successfull in the early days before more independant lists went up ... now they're everywhere and so splintered that no one can really survive unless they have at least 4 major links and lots of little ones. But you know all this already.
Competing for a bigger slice of the same apple is fine ... but recognise that it's still the same apple ... nothing fresh. And each time someone comes in and cuts a new slice that just means even more banners on a girls page and even more ugliness that people see when they go there, before turning away.
Word of mouth is FRESH traffic .... generated by the buyer. What do buyers want??? ask them yourself!!!! Hasnt anyone here ever done a small bussiness course?? The top 5 things I surveyed 2 years ago (be they good or bad its what they said) were ..
1. No banners
everywhere through the site (I break this right at the bottom of the warning
page and with the CEX ring thing simply cos I believe in Moe)
2. No popups
3. No auto rebilling
4. No frames
5. Little or no java script (I use a little yes I know)
The same survey got similar results a few months ago (you could see changes resulting from different technology) ... a few other comments included
1. At least
one site update a day (something that occupies them for at least 10 minutes)
2. No "begging" consoles (a popular word ... not mine)
3. Fast downloads (seems more people are on cable these days and a T1 3 or
more hops from a node just doesnt cut it for an adult site when the biggies
are right on them) <- very popular comment
4. Variation in content... lots of different things to do (punquin's oddities
was mentioned quite a lot as an example btw which I found fantastic as she
doesnt do the nudity thing ... just proves the point huh?)
5. high chat presence (though I havent found personally that makes much difference
except in low traffic sites initially)
Looks was never mentioned once (NOT once) however I think that plays a significant part.
In response to the question "What one thing would cause you to distrust a webmaster?" ... the answer was a resounding 96% "Auto Rebilling" ... whatever your logical reasons for having it, that's what the buyer (the person you are trying to attract if you have a pay site) is saying. Sure your existing members may like it ... that's why they're members ... but have you ever considered why the members that don't join DON'T!! Think about it and justify it all you like with sound commercial reasons and non-internet related examples .... then go ask the public ... you know ... the guy with the credit card that actually pays for your bandwidth.
Unless you're a biggie in the business you dont succeed by tricks ... you succeed in providing people what they want. Of the 10 things above ... how do people score?? That should give them an "indication" of how successful they'll be at getting word of mouth traffic. Don't be fooled by people who think thats trivial ... it isn't!!
I hope people can read this as a means of self examination ... I'm not blowing my own horn as Isa put it ... I'm sharing useful information that people need to consider ...whether it be right or wrong from an accepted perception ... it is reality ... it's also how I've structured my site ... face it, my site is so simplistic in outward appearance I often think it's boring ... but you can't say I don't live by those guidelines. And why would I stake my whole concept on that?? Think about it. Just try.
---------
bernadette...F * * * off....
Posted by ANA on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 11:32 a.m., in response to Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 9:29 a.m.
i am so angry right now , i don't even know how 2 phrase this in a "politically correct way" so i won't...
so i'll just say:
could u POSSIBLY be more of a passive aggressive , psychotic, narcissistic , obessesive, neurotic, pathological BITCH from hell?
i don't think so.
if u touch one hair on isabella's KICK ASS website i will personally see 2 it that u will REGRET u ever did that. do NOT threaten her with your stupid scripts.
u are such a LIAR. it's ridiculous. u are seriously mentally deranged.
isabella is one of the most generous, kind, gentle, and loving people i know. and i would trust her with my LIFE. and i mean that with my entire being.
i cannot sit here silently , reading this RIDICULOUS thread and not stand by my friend, isabella. she doesn't deserve such vile treatment as u have displayed.
if u don't
like toplists then just don't BE on them. it's THAT simple.
if u are dong so remarkably well because of your cheery disposition, then
what do u even CARE?
i happen to
know a large number of people who do like recurring billing.
i, being one of them, when i join sites.
and your survey
is ridiculous.
guess what people are looking for in a camsite of YOUR ilk...
they also would like everything to be FREE and would like to see sex 24/7
just for them and them only.
does that mean u should give them what they want? give them everything for
free just because they want it??? sure...u go right on and do that. and why
don't u go over and clean there houses while you're at it and give them breakfast
in bed and give them a blowjob, too.
and guess what? what YOUR members want is not necessarily what MY members want or what isabella's members want. u are NOT the guru of business when it comes to camsites. nor did isa even ask u for your "advice"
just leave isabella alone. u obviously thrive on petty drama as u are always constantly coming in here and trying 2 rile everyone up.
god, i don't
even know how 2 end this...i am just so angry right now
so i'll just end it here.
------------
Posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 11:47 a.m., in response to
bernadette...F * * * off...., posted by ANA on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 11:32
a.m.
*sigh* ... I didn't threaten her with anything ... if you can't or don't want to see what's going on around you then I can't help that :(
People run scripts against the topsites all the time in the pic arena ... there it's just business ... like it will be one day here if this sort of mentality continues .... hence my loathing (but as usual if I have an opinion different to someone else I'm not allowed to express it in the appropriate forum) ... you don't have to believe it ... you just have to go look for yourself
oh well ... you guys never did like opinions different to your own ... I can't help that either.
BTW ... where
did I lie ... I'm curious what you need substantiated to your claim.
--------
Posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 11:47 a.m., in response to
bernadette...F * * * off...., posted by ANA on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 11:32
a.m.
*sigh* ... I didn't threaten her with anything ... if you can't or don't want to see what's going on around you then I can't help that :(
People run scripts against the topsites all the time in the pic arena ... there it's just business ... like it will be one day here if this sort of mentality continues .... hence my loathing (but as usual if I have an opinion different to someone else I'm not allowed to express it in the appropriate forum) ... you don't have to believe it ... you just have to go look for yourself
oh well ... you guys never did like opinions different to your own ... I can't help that either.
BTW ... where did I lie ... I'm curious what you need substantiated to your claim.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 6:20 p.m., in response to bernadette...F
* * * off...., posted by ANA on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 11:32 a.m.
my tough little ana defending my honor...
*swoon*
=)
xoxoxoxo
-------
Posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:13 p.m., in response to Re: bernadette...F
* * * off...., posted by isabella on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 6:20 p.m.
:) {{{{{{{isabella}}}}}}}}}
always :)
-------
Posted by Xandria on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 1:48 p.m., in response to Cam
Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 4:30 a.m.
WOW. Okay, breathe deep, stick neck out... wait for the axe to fall...
Removing the usual emotional and emotion inciting verbiage from this thread, I can see both sides (not that this is a side taking post).
B has some personal issues regarding top sites and thumb pages, and that's cool. We all have our opinion -- mine is very similar to B's which is why I don't do the top list thumb thing... except for Isa's because I love her to bits and think what she's doing is great. Not to mention that I'm a free site and really don't give a rats ass who or how many visit my site.
Isa's thumb project grew quickly and required her to make some admin changes as a result -- it was that or grow a twin to take up the workload. Isa is doing the best she can and still experimenting. I for one will grow with her changes.
My only concern is that it's nothing for me to create my simple thumb pages, I'd hate to see them never get viewed. I've always liked the listing of the thumb pages with the new additions at the top, then recent, then older. It gives attention to the girls who do put in the effort of making thumbs pages.
In short... there is content in B's posts that have merit and valuable information. Isa is amazing for what she's doing and should be commended and given leeway to act as she must to streamline her workload.
H&K,
Xandria
---------
*sigh* I still don't get you guys. Are you really that sensitive that you can't be told bluntly of another persons opinions?
Call me naive but I just heard how americans define passive/aggressive and realised that it's not the mental condition they use it for in the context here but simply a common insult for anyone who is nice most of the time but stands up against others if their opinion differs at times. In the real world thats called being assertive ... and it's an admirable trait. Americans strive for freedom of speech, liberties and so on, but you are so tied up at a personal level on how you can or can't say something, what's politically correct, doing things the 'accepted way' that you just have no room for anyone with any strength or differences ... here we call those type of people sheep... which if you want to be a sheep is fine.
I don't like rebilling ... simple (please lets not do that one again). I don't like Toplists because I can see past the immediate "effects" (be they good or bad) to the overall fragmentation they cause and the disgusting competitiveness they cause for the ever decreasing slice of recycled traffic.
As for being
at the bottom of every toplist out there well that's a stupid thing for Isa
to say. I refuse to compete for crap ... I give my preference to people that
do the right job (in my assesment) .... people like Moe with the CEX ring
for example (well your job these days :) ... I promote that on pages that
are less traffic but where it will be seen ... and I sit in a nice position
on the CEX stats by the look of it. I do not promte the topcam sites because
I dont want to send my members to the sites that are regularly in the top
... why? because I would be answerable to why I was promoting those sites
... not the toplist (thats how joe public thinks). Also because the concept
is sooo splitting. Take a look at Xcamville as an example. When it first started
out there were most of you guys in there so i thought it was great and supported
it ... funnily enough I happened to sit right at the top for three weeks.
Then the place started filling up with sites I didnt like so I quit promoting
it.
Now you have to ask why do I still link up to some of them and just hover
at the bottom? Simple ... its a link presence thats targeting a specific group
of the market ... the 35-40 year old guys that go straight to the bottom of
every top list to find the new sites or less popular sites... these guys have
been around a while and can see past the crap at the top ... they are the
guys with the disposable income that are looking for site content, not advertising.
I like the guy at RealCamGirls (Ski I think his name is) ... he was very polite
and kind and knows I dislike toplists. I did a survey with his site to actually
check how memberships went ... I promoted him like crazy got stuck at the
top and got lots of traffic and a number of signups ... I stopped promoting,
fell to the bottom and got less traffic but more signups from that traffic
... a lesson that I learned early and something you all need to test for yourselves
rather that clouding your sites with lots and lots of advertising.
As for the scripts ... I do not use them to promote myself, I don't want to be at the top of them ... that's just wassted unproductive bandwidth ... though it seems people still don't accept that even if they know it deep down inside. I have rarely used them other than to see if they work and how and against who ... mostly to see which top list is being honest ... very few of them are as again I'm sure you know ... they repeatedly have the same person at the top who couldn't be there based on their own public stats, a lack of return banners and often equal divisor factors (the IN score always being divisible evenly by three or five). These scripts ARE being used in the photo only sites, I know lots of webmasters that use them ... one very big webmaster (not naming) was the one that sent me the scripting!!! That same scripting is used by hackers on your sites NOW for the "background noise" password cracking. It's easily available ... I even posted similar scripting in here about a year ago and people laughed at it as not possible (which is crazy considering its popularity). It's a matter of time before its use is as widespread here as it is in the pics arena. I would personally like to see a better evolution in listing techniques before it gets to a case of complaining about how hard it is to compete for traffic ... heh you think its hard now LOL ... there are more and more large scale sites/groups getting cams faster and faster ... pretty soon you'll be stuck down the middle of everyone of those lists even when pushing hard ... btw people don't look at the middle ... they look at the ends ... all your hard promoted links will just be sending traffic to the larger commercial sites ... this isnt a forecast of doom ... its a reality NOW that people should have enough foresight and openness to see and work around NOW.
Or you can just go back to hiding in your political correctness and calling me passive/agressive ... which now understanding thats an insulting way of labelling one who is assertive about a differing opinion to your own, but otherwise nice ... I'm glad to be called ... even proud ... we should all strive to be more passive aggressive :)
Nuff said from me.
B
------------
Posted by ANA on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 10:54 p.m., in response to Re: Cam
Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 9:01 p.m.
no, that is not the definition. please find out the definitions of personality disorders before u make yourself look like more of an idiot than u appearing to be. the definition is not different in different countries just as the word "cancer" is not different in different countries. and when i call u an idiot..don't take that personally, ok? i am just being blunt and honest.
here is a place u can find out more...and here is a link to a very specfic disorder u appear to have called Narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/000934.cfm
Alternative
names:
self-centeredness
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Definition:
A disorder of the personality characterized by an abnormal love of self, self-centeredness,
being self-absorbed, and an inability to empathize with the effects of one's
behavior on others.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Causes, incidence, and risk factors:
The cause of this disorder is unknown, but one theory proposes that the parents
of people who develop this disorder needed their children to be talented or
special in order to maintain their own self-esteem. This disorder usually
begins by early adulthood. Narcissistic people are unable to perceive themselves
and others accurately. They often feel entitled to special treatment by others
and can become demanding, angry, and easily offended.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symptoms:
reacts to criticism with feelings or rage, shame or humiliation
takes advantage of others to achieve own goals
self-important
exaggerates achievements and talents
preoccupation with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal
love
unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
requires constant attention and admiration
lacks empathy
-------------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:59 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by ANA on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 10:54 p.m.
Lol lol lol ... couldn't you find "Passive-Agressive"?? That's "Narcissistic personality disorder" according to the page you quoted ... which is completely different as you know.
According to the "Dictionary of Psychology" as quoted from a lady in my chat who IS a forensic psychologist it means ...
"Descriptive of patterns of behaviour in which agressiveness is displayed but in a passive rather than active manner; commonly seen in persons in realtively low power positions in which overt aggressiveness would be seen to lead to reprisals; A general label descriptive of a person who is lacking in independence, the reactions often being agressive in nature."
If you'd like to ask her more about this pattern of behaviour pleasefeel free to drop by and talk to her. She also believes its VERY often misquoted and commonly used by ignorant people in an insulting matter when they have no substance to their arguement. But you can feel free to discuss that with her ... just wanted you to know that I did go find out what it meant when you first used it ... it's quite obvious that you don't .... nor how to look it up right :)
Definitions may not change but interpretations often do ... lets look at your "Narcissistic personality disorder" ... you 'interpret' someone who loves themselves and their work and is willing to defend or explain it, as narcissistic... I'm proud to be called that if thats what you mean. I'm very proud of the work I have done, I certainly love myself ... it's the key to loving others ... if you can't love yourself then you cant love others in a healthy way ... so the key word here is abnormal ... to determine that you'd need to get a pretty good in depth session going from a qualified individual ... of which you are not (unless you aren't telling us something :). It's easy to go through a list of disorders and try to apply it to people ... I'm sure everyone fits most categories at some point in time ... what you seem to negate is the entirity of prespective ... but I'd expect that of someone who was emotionally angry and looking for a means of expression ... and that's normal ... I don't need to look through a definition of psychology terms for that ... everyone gets mad at some point.
But that's just a silly fruitless arguement :) ... Feel free to come and discuss psychology with a professional if you want ... she said she's willing to entertain you :)
B
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:05 p.m., in response to Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:59 a.m.
i found "passive
aggressive" , i gave u the url.
my mother is a psychiatric nurse so i have learned a lot from her. my brother
was extremely passive aggresive, so i know what it is. i lived with it for
18 years.
just whatever.
i'm done with this.
u aren't going to get it i can see.
-----------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:39 p.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:05 p.m.
No you gave
the URL for a different condition ... if people wish to follow your URL they
will see that for themselves ... maybe you just cut and paste incorrectly
... I've done that plenty of times ... I just checked again to follow your
URL and it ended up at the narcissistic symptoms, not the PA ones.
---------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:06 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by ANA on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 10:54 p.m.
For the sake of completeness ... here's the link to Passive-Agressive on YOUR selected site ... VERY interesting that the definition is different yet again ... hmmm maybe I was rightr afterall .. and I see why you chose to look for another "sickness" :)
http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/000943.cfm
Symptoms:
procrastination
intentional inefficiency
avoiding responsibility by claiming forgetfulness
complaining
blaming others
resentment
sullenness
does not express hostility or anger openly
fears authority
resists suggestions from others
Now other than complaining at times, none of the others apply to me at all ... infact they are the opposite of me ... seems you made a bad diagnosis Doctor Ana :)
B
--------
Posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:09 p.m., in response to Re: Cam
Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:06 a.m.
complaining
blaming others
resentment
sullenness
fears authority
resists suggestions from others
those adjectives
seem to fit u, from my standpoint.
that is how u are coming across to me.
maybe u are not that. but u definitely SEEM that way to me.
--------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:35 p.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:09 p.m.
Ok lets look at those shall we
- complaining
If I don't like something I say so, If I do I say so. I'm sure you've complained about something you don't like ... does that make you passive aggressive?
- blaming others
Blaming them for what? If you find a cause of a fault should you not say so? In the context of this condition it refers to blaming people for things that they have done themselves. I've never blamed anyone else for something I have done incorrectly ... never.
- resentment
Resentment is for people who believe others have more or better than them in some way. I don't think I'm doing badly ... to the contrary I think I'm doing damn well.
- sullenness
lol lol ... ever checked my cam ... I'm always smiling ... and everyone is entitled to a bad day now and then :)
- fears authority
You gotta be kidding me right??? Come join me on a protest march or a take part in a campaign against govt with me ... oh that's right you did didnt you :) ... want to add short term memory to yuor list of problems ... I was thinking it'd be funny to pick bits out of your writings and apply a cool psychological disorder to them.
- resists suggestions from others
If someone told you to jump of a cliff and you refused would you be passive aggressive? No of course not because you have a logical reason as to why not. If you refused for no grounds whatsoever then maybe so. I do believe I have a reason for disliking certain points of view and have presented substantial reasons as to why not. That's intelligence. I very often survey my public as you've seen in the thread above and run my site accordingly. Would that not indicate I listen to things and then do some suggestions and reject others based on a decision making process?? That dear Ana is a healthy mind. Searching for clinical assessment of an individual that you do not know even remotely is the sign of an unhealthy mind.
Clinical diagnosis should be made by a professional and are not made on snippets of comments a person makes in the odd writing. A diagnosis should come from a complete analysis of the persons whole approach and behavioural pattern ... and take into account their reasons for those behaviours ... you couldn't possibly remotely claim to know even 1% of my personality so you are just floundering away looking for an insult for which I'm happy to debate you on.
Next?
----------
Posted by Cyka on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:07 a.m., in response to Re: Cam
Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 9:01 p.m.
I found this entire thread to be pretty pointless and petty until reading just now Bernadette's statements on Americans. Now I think it's just stupid. I think that B, Stephanie,and I are the only foreigners in here, but her painting Americans in such a sad light is just not on. Yes, I have from time to time whinged about how Americans, how they have to make a syndrome or illness out of everything(they're the only ones I know that make a natural female function a syndrome(PMS v. PMT)), but in all reality, 95% of the cam population is based in America. Quite much of the remainder of the world is based on America and American philosophy. While I personally do not care for America, I do respect that not all Americans are as the telly show, and that they are responsible for a good majority of the technology that the world now enjoys. Don't go there with the 'I just read how Americans view...', because you probably read a study of 1/1000000th of them. I could much say the same about how the English consider Australians to homosexual criminals. What I feel B is doing is not called assertive. Assertive would be creating your own site in the philosophy and manner in which you think it should be beneficial. What I believe B is doing is just attacking.
Congratulations that you're a pioneer in your own country, B. It's a great feeling, as I enjoy the same in my own country. However, it doesn't give you the right to act superior to anyone else here. Airing your private arguements with Isabella or anyone else in public doesn't make for interesting reading. And making someone else look bad never makes one look any better.
And spare me the thread from past about how B is of British descent and is therefore an excuse to try to understand and explain B's behaviour. 90% of my friends are British, and I quite assure you, they do not display this kind of aggressiveness. Nor do my Australian friends. Although, about 15 of us will be getting together for drinks tonight and we'll take a poll on whether this is a cultural thing, or just plain obnoxious.
As for the psychology debate...what do you call it when someone goes on the offensive, then ends messages with 'now I'll go hide again for another 6 weeks'?
Cyka.
---------
Posted by KissyFish on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:20 a.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Cyka on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:07 a.m.
*****As for the psychology debate...what do you call it when someone goes on the offensive, then ends messages with 'now I'll go hide again for another 6 weeks'? *****
isn't that passive agression?
i could be wrong.
however, if a person who made such a statement actually LEFT after saying such things, i believe the correct term would be *pussy* ;)
Kissy
---------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 9:29 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by KissyFish on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:20 a.m.
hehe not according to Ana's health website ... I kinda like the 'pussy' comment though :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by KissyFish on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:06 p.m., in response to Re:
Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 9:29 a.m.
heh heh...you would ;)
KF
-------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 9:27 a.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by Cyka on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:07 a.m.
I simply find even with censorship laws, film and literature laws etc ... I still seem to have more freedom of speech than the average American restricted by political correctness and and mob mentality ... I'm not coming down on Americans at all though I do notice they leap on anything you say about them (today I got yelled at by one guy for telling him I admired his stance on feminism ... seems he thought that saying you admired something had to be sarcasm because he was so damned insecure that I couldn't possibly be complimenting him ... he then started to give me a lecture on political correctness before I kicked him out of chat)... it's actually something a number of my American chat members talk about all the time. I also seem to find the same culture in the email I read. Be it accurate as a whole or not I do not know ... but its certainly my experience on the Net, in everything from email to here in this very forum. America seems to have a definition and category for labelling just about everything there is ... even you said that in your own comments ... which kinda confuses me as to your point.
> Assertive would be creating your own site in the philosophy and manner in which you think it should be beneficial.
Err isnt that what I did?
Interesting side note ... my chatroom is currently discussing a news show that is on a morning program there which is saying that 1/3 of Americans are or at some time for an extended period been on antidepressants. Is that a true experience of people here? Is life there really that competitive or stressful? What are the reasons for so many people being on them? Could that perhaps be a cultural difference or just an overease of getting drugs? It's 30 times higher than the next country (Italy). I find that a staggering figure!!! I know quite a lot of people here have been on them, but I can understand the stress in this 'industry', but as a general rule is it really as your media says?
B
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:16 p.m., in response to Re: Cam
Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 9:27 a.m.
u said:
"...the average American restricted by political correctness and and
mob mentality "
ah, and u are prejudiced , as well. that is really sad. :/
--------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:18 p.m., in response to
Re: Cam Girl Thumbs, posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 12:16 p.m.
not prejudiced ... observant ... and listening to those Americans I know who believe that aboutthe country in which that live. I respect their opinions and do I learn from my own experience. That is not prejudice ... it would be unwise to be anything but.
--------
Posted by Cyka on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:21 a.m., in response to Re: Cam
Girl Thumbs, posted by Bernadette on Sunday, 4 June 2000, at 9:01 p.m.
Oh and one
more thing...psychiatric/psychological problems in Russia are usually either
cured with a nice long stay at the Hotel du Yellow House, or a swift kick
to the head. The latter of which I'd be happy to administer to anyone who'd
like to lie on Dr. Cyka's couch.
---------
Posted by Kandi on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:46 p.m.
After reading this weekend's posts here. I'd like to nominate a new section of the GO Forum....a Storm Drain!!!!! That way, the girls can debate, blow off steam, call each other names, or whatever and for the girls who'd rather not read that kind of negativity can just bypass it altogether.
xoxo
------
Posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:49 p.m., in response to Suggestion
for Forum!!, posted by Kandi on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:46 p.m.
very good idea! :)
------
Posted by CloeiGrrl on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 4:58 p.m., in response to Suggestion
for Forum!!, posted by Kandi on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:46 p.m.
Though it is a wonderful idea it is sad that we actually need it. The cam girls in the forum here are here because they go beyond that and are in a better class. This place is suppose to be for help/suggestions/opinions on stuff/and chat chat - but the posts that tend to run the longest are the flames....
A great example...the post right before the latest flame war is a question post I wrote...with no reply......
or maybe I am in just a very bad mood about life right now...not having a good day at all...
Cloei
------
Posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 6:14 p.m., in response to Re: Suggestion
for Forum!!, posted by CloeiGrrl on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 4:58 p.m.
the camgirl
collage thread is very long. and right now there is only one flaming thread
in here right now. all the rest are friendly.
i seriously can't even remember when the last flaming thread was here since
the one yesterday.
i'm sorry u are having a bad day.
right now
i am watching oprah. ( i love her, so sue me :)
and this episode is about Fear
which is very appropriate for me 2 see this today!
since rage, bigotry, macho behaviour, bragging, etc..is all a form of fear.
that whole
entire thread flaming thread was ALL fear based
from any angle u wannna see it from, imo
fear that
there isn't enough "room" on the internet for every single camgirl
fear that another camgirl's success means there is less "success"
for u or me
fear that people will think badly of us
fera that someone will hack our site for speaking our minds
etc etc etc
i, for one,
can learn a lot about myself by seeing how i was acting out of fear
..not from a place of "love"
i think what
my fear was, in that thread, was that the bully ( bernadette, imo ) will "take
over" and stop others from being heard. that others will be afraid to
speak their minds for fear of being attacked by her...which did happen.
i fear she will instill in some camgirl's minds that there isn't room for
all of us and that toplists will somehow "take over" the net 'causing
complete injustice for all cams trying to make a living from this.
i had been
holding in my anger for a long time that i had about her..the way she is prejudiced
against america, for one thing.
and *I* feel bullied by her as she thinks there is only ONE way to have a
"successful" camsite. the way she thinks everyone on the top of
a toplist is "crap".
i am afraid her judgementalness will "rub off" on others.
i want everyine 2 know how wonderful isabella is. i don't want people 2 think
wrongly of her. i don't want people 2 think wrongly of ME!
now that i have yelled a big long yell in here, i fear what others will judge me as.
fear built on fear built on fear.
i don't want
others to be afraid of doing what they love. i don't want them to feel things
need to be a certain way in order to be "successful"
i don't want to feel that way MYSELF!
it's hard to have a camsite, it's different than other "jobs" in that it's so PERSONAL. if our site doesn't "do well" it's easy to think, "what is wrong with ME"
i just basically
wanted to say that isabella is a wonderful and FAIR person. and that whereever
u stand on a toplist does not say what YOU are worth.
or even what you site is worth.
and that there is enough room for all of us and we needn't think or act or
BE in way that thinks if so-and-so gets THIS muc traffic then i am getting
LESS traffic. that is my slant on things.
and i have this fear of injustice, which is what bernadette also fears, it seems. i just feel her line of thinking is totally out of whack..but i can understand it because i have also had a fear on the same level as she is feeling ( IN MY OPINION, this is how i see it from MY perspective )
i don't like to see my friends dogged on , when they are so kind and good.
i also don't
like ME 2 be dogged on...
i don't like to be misunderstood, that was one reason i started my cam because
i wanted to clarify myself to others , as i felt so misunderstood and easily
judged by others so much in my life, especially being a small "cute"
girl with fake hair and fake breasts in the entertainment industry...or even
not in that industry..i am not taken as seriously as i wish 2 be sometimes
simply because i am a small cute female.
anyway..i realized that the more i tried to clarify myself to others..the
more they projected their own thoughts and feelings onto me....
and i'm sure i do the same. we can all learn i lot, *I* can learn a lot about myself by taking a step back and watching my behaviour and watching my REACTION to the things around me.
the question
on oprah today, "what am i REALLY afraid of?"
(yes, i know i know..it's not "cool" 2 like oprah )
anyway..it's a good question. and so often i find that whatever it is that is happening in my life...the oprah show will be about EXACTLY what i need 2 step back and look at. "synchronicity"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 10:19 p.m., in response to fear, posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 6:14 p.m.
LOL you getta get out more (or is that fear of going outside) ... I saw a body language thing on oprah once that said folding your arms in a conversation was all about fear ... ever stopped to think it might be comfortable ... or that the person scratching their nose actually has an itchy nose. Catergeorising everything as something like you just did above is EXACTLY what I was saying about American mentality ... it's incredibly incredibly sad and unhealthy.
I have no fear of injustice ...I have no fear per se (ok opal tell me how to say that properly :) ... but if I do see something that I consider inappropriate or wrong then I have the strength to face in head on at full speed ... I dont cower around the back door for "fear" of being caught out ... to label peoples psychology in such a way is just the sort of gross generalisation that typifies American culture (as far as I see it on TV, email, chat, here) and further pushes them into this seriously unhealthy politically correct culture.
How many more
different categories are you going to fruitlessly try to put me into Ana ...
that's three so far ... what one is next.
-----------
Posted by Cyka on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 2:47 a.m., in response to Re: fear,
posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 10:19 p.m.
> How many more different categories are you going to fruitlessly try to put me into Ana ... that's three so far ... what one is next.
About as many as you've lumped the Americans and the rest of the world in, Bernadette.
I will comment
on your reply to my posting after I return from work tonight.
----------
Posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:33 a.m., in response to
Re: fear, posted by Cyka on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 2:47 a.m.
Hey this is the bit I dont get ... see if you can help me out here....
If a group of Americans themselves seem to think that America is suffering from a bad case of political correctness and a syndrome for everything and generally are disheartened because of a poor social system and lack of real freedoms then you would not call them racist. They are Americans and they are entitled to criticise the system in which the live ... and even work to change it.
If they say it in a discussion in my chatroom with non-Americans then they are not racist either ... they are still allowed to say what they like about themselves.
If I see their point of view and my own limited experience agrees with them then I am still not racist.
But if I happen to state that I agree with them then I am labelled as racist ... how so?? I am not observant for seeing my own experience. I am not intelligent for listening to the reasons and arguements. Nope ... they label me as racist.
So for the sake of yet another argument:
1. my best
friend is black (colored for the politically correct among you ... she prefers
black).
2. I spent 3 months doing exchange volunteer work in Isreal during my degree
helping rehouse displaced people (I really should add this to my diary as
I have some great stories on it for anyone whos been there)
3. I'm on a local aboriginal child development committee at my daughters playgroup.
4. I speak four alternative languages, French, German, Japanese and Vietnamese
(though not fluently on this yet)
Saying you dislike something specific about a particular culture is not racist by any means when placed in the context of the discussion. I don't like America's gun control laws ... does saying that make me racist too?? People made those laws so obviously I must be attacking them and hence racist by your definition because the laws cover a whole nation in general.
I just don't get it. If this mentality is real then how the hell do you people have any real freedom of speech? Everything has to be so carefully framed in a manner so as not to offend anyone ... that's "crazy".
B
---------
Posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 5:32 a.m., in response to Re: fear,
posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:33 a.m.
u are racist , B, because u are lumping an entire group of millions of people into one category....because I do NOT agree with u that all americans are , as u say:" suffering from a bad case of political correctness and a syndrome for everything and generally are disheartened because of a poor social system and lack of real freedoms "
i am NOT in
that GROUP..whoever u were talking 2...i am not THEM
u should judge people individually...are are making a blanket statement about
millions of people who are ALL individuals!!!
god, i can't
even BELIEVE we are having this discussion! is this the dark ages or something?
----------
Posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 5:41 a.m., in response to
Re: fear, posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 5:32 a.m.
err ahem ... you ARE in that group ... it was because of YOU trying to find a mental condition for everything I said that I actually made the comment in the first place ... your forgetfullness is most convenient :)
As I said I made a comment based on my knowledge of a specific cultural quirk that a whole group of americans I was listening too were discussing it ... I still dont see how that makes a person racist ... see if you can even REMOTELY manage to keep things in context for just a few minutes. I stand by exactly what I said regards this political correctness culture. I also wonder how many of you have ever been peeved at political correctness yourselves.
/me goes to look up what syndrome applies to wild accusations, forgetfullness and ridiculously low attention span.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 5:50 a.m., in response to Re: fear,
posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 5:41 a.m.
u are really
sick, B.
u are just as thoroughly disgusting as a KKK member.
this is the last thing i will EVER say 2 u.
--------
Posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:02 a.m., in response to
Re: fear, posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 5:50 a.m.
You just cant help yourself can you ...
let's see ... what have you ever done for local ethnic groups, how many committees do you sit on for native child health and welfare, how many countries have you done volunteer work in??
KKK? wow you amaze me ... you really do. I'm stunned ... hmmm now as it sinks in I'm not ... I'm coming to expect it from you.
Ok now you can say I'm blowing my own horn again or whatever the line was because I'm defending myself from your wild accusations ... but you won't mention I'm defending myself from them ... you'll just say I'm full of myself.
---------
Posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:18 a.m., in response to Re: fear,
posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:02 a.m.
ok, THIS will
be the last thing i say 2 u ( LOL )
guess what B, my BROTHER is black as well as many other people in my family
are "ethnic" we're ALL fucking ethnic.
my dad and my stepdad are both lutheran ministers and i work a lot with them
in helping many people out.
there are a lot of homeless people also around where i live and i personally
make them sandwhiches and bring them clean water and clothing and bring that
out to them at a specified time.
i give lots of money to
www.rawa.org
and www.rainn.org
i alos go to hospitals and read to the critically ill to try 2 take their minds off their pain and just be there for them
and that's just SOME of the things i do.
i've never felt a need to go shove that in anyones face as some sort of way of showing how WONDERFUL i am.
god...u are unfuckingreal.
if u really
want 2 show your "love" . why don't u start right HERE.
if u are so giving and kind and great, why is it that everything i've ever
heard coming out of your mouth is as black as tar?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:37 a.m., in response to
Re: fear, posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:18 a.m.
> why is
it that everything i've ever heard coming out of your mouth is
as black as tar?
Everything? Just think about that. You criticise me constantly for generalisations yet you just cant help yourself but you don't see yuorself at fault do you ... it's ok for you but not for anyone else even if they ARE in context and yuo are running wild.
... and I told you that you'd have to say I was full of myself when I used examples to defend myself from your accusations ... and guess what ... you did just that didnt you :) ... are you really that dumb??
I am glad to see you contributing to society in a positive way though ... I didn't for the life of me think you could really be as crazed as you sound here. I bet we share many experiences and agree on many levels ... but I doubt we'll ever find that in this arena. More's the pity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by KissyFish on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:26 p.m., in response to
Re: fear, posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 5:41 a.m.
****As I said I made a comment based on my knowledge of a specific cultural quirk that a whole group of americans I was listening too were discussing it ... I still dont see how that makes a person racist*****
um, i'm american, and i'm not in that group.
'course, it could be said from your postings that all Australians are vicious cunts, but i won't go there.
'cause i try not to lump large groups of people together. :)
KF
----------
Posted by OpalCat on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 2:58 p.m., in response to Re:
fear, posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:33 a.m.
1. my best friend is black (colored for the politically correct among you ... she prefers black).
I don't think
"colored" has been the PC term since the 50s or 60s. Personally,
I use "black" as well.
-------
Posted by KissyFish on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:16 p.m., in response to
Re: fear, posted by OpalCat on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 2:58 p.m.
*giggle* hubby and i were JUST talking about a girl he knows at work who calls black people *colored* out of *respect* 'cause she used to work at an old age home, and that's what they said! *ROFL*
the correct term these days, i beleive, is black. colored is seen as sort of an insult.
however, i rarely feel the need to point out a person's color, unless i'm actually pointing them out in a crowd, ie. the short black guy over there with the red cap, or the enormous bald white guy over there.
:)
love you, opal.
K
---------
Posted by cloei on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 10:57 p.m., in response to fear,
posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 6:14 p.m.
um, was that all to me? i just stated my opinion at the time...i had a very shitty day - hell i have had a very shitty past week - and was upset and pissed in general. sorry :(
c - who really does want to hide right now :(
--------
Posted by Elektric on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 6:58 p.m., in response to Re:
Suggestion for Forum!!, posted by CloeiGrrl on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 4:58
p.m.
Hi Cloei,
I just saw your question post today but before I could answer saw that you
had answered your own question and realized you'd done something wrong on
your end. Please do not think I would not go out of my way to help you, oh
nakkid one!! *grin*
---------
Posted by cloei on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 11:00 p.m., in response to Re:
Suggestion for Forum!!, posted by Elektric on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 6:58
p.m.
i know i know my bad - just feeling extreamly down today i am really sorry :(
------
Posted by Coy on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 7:32 p.m., in response to Suggestion
for Forum!!, posted by Kandi on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:46 p.m.
Kandi, you
are such a softy :) but I don't like the drain concept. I'm not one to call
another names, I think it's immature, but I don't mind a good debate. Everyone
talks about getting emotional as if it were a bad thing but geesh, if I'm
not somewhat emotional about a topic it means I don't really care. Dissent
and disagreement doesn't always translate to negativity, imo. It's only through
real passion, not slander and diatribes, that minds are changed and new avenues
of thinking are opened. God forbid, if this every becomes a place where all
we have are hugs and kisses. ( not that those are BAD things! )
peas and hominy,
Coy
ps: Has anyone
tuned into Survivor? I love it!
-------
Posted by Kandi on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 11:27 a.m., in response to Re:
Suggestion for Forum!!, posted by Coy on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 7:32 p.m.
I just hate negativity. I cringe when I hear the girls in hear calling each other names, it makes me feel negative inside and that's why I considered it negativity. A debate is one thing...sometimes it is more than a debate in here. Constructive criticism is something else, and often should be in private if you ask me.
Yes, I am a major softy, right now after reading all this I feel like crying. We're all supposed to be sisters, whether or not we agree or disagree, we're supposed to love each other. At least I do. I love all the girls in this forum, I may disagree with them, and I may not like some of the things they do, but that's okay. That's just who they are so I accept them. I've learned a long time ago, way better to NOT judge, accept, and send love. It's actually easier too.
xoxo
peace and love :-)
---------
Posted by Coy on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 12:11 p.m., in response to Re: Suggestion
for Forum!!, posted by Kandi on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 11:27 a.m.
I didn't mean
to say that being a softy is a bad thing :) and I agree with you that negativity
is not good for anyone. It's just a shame to think that we can't have discussions
or disagreements without it degrading to the point that people start attacking
each other personally *sigh*. I can't say that I love everyone in this group
but I can say, unequivocally, that I have no animosity for anyone here. I
admire you Kandi for your softness.
*hugs*
Coy
-------
Posted by Coy on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 12:24 p.m., in response to Re: Suggestion
for Forum!!, posted by Coy on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 12:11 p.m.
I'm taking
a medicine that lists as one of it's side effects "may produce a false
sense of well being", maybe I should pass it around lol!
--------
Posted by Kandi on Wednesday, 7 June 2000, at 10:39 a.m., in response to ps:,
posted by Coy on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 12:24 p.m.
I'd like a
bottle of that Coy!! :-) hehe
--------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 10:07 p.m., in response to
Suggestion for Forum!!, posted by Kandi on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 1:46 p.m.
Great idea
... so we raise issues that we think are important here ... then go there
to discuss them?
------
Posted by ee on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:23 p.m.
We have setup
this Forum as an area of safe exchange between the Ladies,
your cyber-oasis from the public scrutiny...
unfortunatly
that doesn't include the cam public, sad, really reall sad people.
-------
Posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 3:18 p.m., in response to bleh, posted
by ee on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:23 p.m.
i find that statement very ironic coming from u, ee...since u have gone into my PRIVATE bbs and dogged on over a personal fight u were having with her at that time. and people in my bbs were feeling exactly how u are feeling right now about this fight here.
so please...no wagging of fingers. we all have our bad days. nobody is perfect.
it's earth. fights are bound 2 happen once in awhile almost everywhere. this bbs stays 99% flame free and i've been here since day 1 at this bbs. so i think that's pretty good average.
------
Posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 3:28 p.m., in response to Re: bleh,
posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 3:18 p.m.
ah, it thought i was putting in html and took out a few words. sentence should have been:
...dogged on (name of camgirl withheld) over a personal fight...
*sigh*
and anyway...i
will just not stand for my friend, isa, getting totally dogged on just as
u felt dogged on my (name of camgirl)
surely u can understand that when u feel there has been an injustice?
but i think
that thread has been pretty picked over now. and so that is that.
a new day...(unless someone would like to take on B's prejudice...oh i mean
"OBSERVATION"... against an entire country of people)
haha :)
it's time 4 a nice carbonated sugary beverage!
------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 10:33 p.m., in response to
oops, posted by ANA on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 3:28 p.m.
hehe ... some
one has to find you a shorter leash
------
Posted by isabella on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 3:01 p.m., in response to bleh,
posted by ee on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 2:23 p.m.
yes, it is
really sad... i was hoping it would be a safe place for us to help each other
out... choosing to do this kind of business is hard enough out there in the
real world...
but honestly, has anyone ever said a negative thing or attacked anyone without
signing it "okay, flame me if you want, i'll go into hiding for the next
six weeks, b." ?
------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 10:30 p.m., in response to
Re: bleh, posted by isabella on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 3:01 p.m.
Maybe I'm kinda getting used to being the one that thinks differently then gets attacked for it. It's called sarcasm ... not fear, narcissis or whatever else syndrome ana wishes to attach to it.
If you look at the flaming below, I clearly stated my dislike for something you did (which I also provided supporting reasons for). Ana was the one that attacked and attacked like a rabid bull terrier ... I sat there defending the whole time...
I think its sad I can't disagree or be strong willed ... especially in a country that says I'm fully entitled to speak my own mind and would go to war to insure it.
For the record
Isa (and I've given my reasons already) ... I don't believe in the long run
that you'll be helping out cam girls ... I thinking you'll be causing harm.
You disagree. Fine ... but I have the right to say I think you are causing
harm. I've also suggested how I think it should be done better and nobody
actually seems to have disputed that ... so why not ... can you meet the challenge
to work to the highest common denominator??
---------
oh yes, b... of course u are the poor victim of just trying to give your innocent opinion... we are all vicious evil people that are trying to hold down your right to put your two cents in... funny, this was how u began your little innocent dialog in your email to me:
"I just
posted my disgust at your system in the Girls Only area ... just
letting you know so you can get a right of reply. I'm disappointed to say
the least ... what you are doing is plain greed at the expense of friends
and you damn well know it :(
B"
that sounds so sweet and helpful i can't imagine why i took offense at your attitude... whatever was i thinking? and then in your first post:
"Below is Isa and my correspondance ... start from the bottom up ... did aanyone really complain that it was too hard to make a thumbs page and ask her to turn it into a toplist ... or is it really as it seems and just a way for her to make more traffic out of her collegues by making them compete even more.
I think its time for me to run some cgi against all the toplists and even out the playing field a little more ... I hate greedy people :(
feel free to flame me ... I dont give a shit."
"I can see quite plainly you are only interested in traffic to yourself ... not promoting people fairly."
gosh... that doesn't sound like a person trying to start a fight at all! i need to learn how to communicate better so i can start treating everyone i have a difference of opinion with as if they are the enemy of everyone they are trying to work with!
can u please give us all lessons on how u are able to so effectively get your point accross to all of us idiotic americans... perhaps we should all simply start threatening each other when we decide we don't like what the others are doing with their sites?
"PS: I just ran a 64K proxy script against two topsites and it seems to work against both very simply ... is that a wrong thing to do? if so why? I'm curious about the philosophical implications before I proceed any further ... I'm sure the Sherriff of Nottingham thought Robinhood a criminal too ... I ve soooo longed to put an end to this top list recycling crap and force competition to more productive means."
u dear, sweet girl... i can't imagine what this forum would be like without u! i only dream of what this forum could be like if everyone treated each other the way u treat all of us! ah, the knowledge and wisdom that would be traded back and forth would be an awesome thing to behold! we could call each other liars and greedy... we could make comments about each other's nationality... perhaps even get in some really cool racial slurs to show how assertive we can be!
u know what? i don't think we insignificant lowly americans really deserve your help... i think perhaps u should take your wonderfully vast experience and knowledge to a more worthy group of "movers and shakers" who will take your approach with more of an open mind!
i don't think any of us will think badly of u if u desert us in search of higher beings... we've already proven to u that we are not worthy of your help.
-------
Posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 11:59 p.m., in response to
Re: bleh, posted by isabella on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 11:53 p.m.
Yep my opinion
was exactly as you quoted. And I still stand by that. Your point being?
--------
Posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 12:07 a.m., in response to
Re: bleh, posted by Bernadette on Monday, 5 June 2000, at 11:59 p.m.
o geez...
nevermind... if that is your reply, i am no longer mad at u, i just feel really
sorry for u...
--------
Posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 12:13 a.m., in response to Re: bleh,
posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 12:07 a.m.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{isabellllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaa}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
----------
Posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 1:04 a.m., in response to
Re: bleh, posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 12:07 a.m.
Look Isa I have time and time again explained why _I_ think what you are doing is a bad idea, as I have in the past for other toplists (funny how back then people tended to agree on toplists). I have also provided substantial reasons, and reality situations that are in question and so far havent been disputed by one person here ... not one ... including you. I also provided what I considered to be a better approach of value adding rather than vale splitting. Again I backed that up with reasons and examples. Again no one disputed them.
So far NO one has disputed any of this. All they have done is try to label me with one mental condition after another ... for which I also refuted in a clear and logical pattern. Their response was not to discuss that refusal or back it up with any evidence ... they just looked for another silly condition and so on. Really really dumb ... and EVIDENCE of exactly what I was saying about my experience with Americans ... I was then 'labelled' as racist/prejudiced because I thought it a behaviour that typified a culture (labelling people with syndromes) ... while the whole time right in front of you that is what ana was doing over and over again ... as did you toward the end.
Please do you have any evidence you wish to present as to why value adding is not as good as value splitting??? That is the whole point of this discussion. I'm sick of the constant splitting mentality that is rife in the Net ... and I don't see what is wrong with me using that same mentality against it to wake it up to itself. You might not agree with my way of doing things and yuo don't have to like them either. But I would like to see some evidence as to why what I have suggested as an alternative is so bad?? I'm also yet to see one person come forward as you claim who actually thinks it is too hard to keep up with putting up one set of thumbs a week and prefered you go to a top list. That was your claim to me ... so who are they ... I'd love to see the evidence. Moreover I'd love to know why its so hard ... then give them the script I use to make all the thumbs and write the html automatically in a few seconds. I don't for the life of me believe someone would rather compete in a split value system (economic term - for those of you who have studied it will know exactly what I mean) rather than a value add system that takes just a few seconds.
-------
Posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 3:35 a.m., in response to Re:
bleh, posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 1:04 a.m.
there, there... no one thinks you're crazy, b... no one thinks that u can't seem to understand that there are more productive ways of voicing your opinion than attacking someone personally and viciously... we know u are just trying to save us all from ourselves and the entire internet from our misguided ways... we know that u are the defender of good and i am your evil nemesis...
but in fairness, here is what i said to u:
"hey b...
u don't have to use it but it can help to keep your thumbs pages up longer... girls were complaining that it was too difficult to create new thumbs pages to keep on top so i changed it to a toplist so that girls could submit fewer galleries and keep theirs on top by sending more traffic to the gallery."
i don't see where i said the girls suggested a toplist, that was simply one way i thought maybe i could fix the problem... it way my idea, i'm sure u can find a local hitman to take me out for being so evil, stupid and lazy... i know it is my site to decide what i want to do with it but after all, u do know better and should be able to treat me like shit and threaten to attack my site with cheating scripts because after all, the ends justify the means, right?
as far as the girls who wrote to me about not having enough time, two are a part of this forum and would not dare speak out against u because of the wrath u are obviously capable of... and the others were not a part of this forum... the complaint stemmed from the time it takes to select worthy pictures for the purpose of promoting their sites... remember, not everyone claims to make over a hundred thousand us dollars a month so a lot of girls have full-time jobs and barely have enough time to do shows much less all the promotion necessary to make them popular... and besides, u may feel comfortable using any old pics for your gallery because of course every one is so damn perfect and once they see them, 99% will join your site right away, but some girls feel it is necessary to select carefully.
i don't know why more people don't stand up against u, b, but i have a feeling that it is because u pretend u are the end-all be-all of camgirls and also a killer hacker that will not think twice about either attacking a girl's site or sending your devoted members to make her life miserable... gee, could it be because u tend to threaten people with vague hints of retribution?
but honestly, this has probably been the most negative discourse i've had in my 32 years of life... i don't like confrontation and i will not allow someone like u to call me names and accuse me of doing wrong by my friends... so here it is, i don't know how everyone feels about u, i only know how i feel about u... i will not be a part of any community that u are a part of so i am going to resign from membership of the cex effective immediately. i hate to put my friends on the spot so i don't think i should lead a coup to get rid of u. but u make this place a horrible place for me even tho as ana says, 99% is very nice and helpful... the 1% u represent is even too much for me to bare. it is like having a rattlesnake in paradise, sure, u can pretend it isn't there, but every time u take a step u may tread on it and suffer terribly for the next several days...
and by the way, the reason i won't argue against your business reasoning is because i think u are lying about your traffic, memberships and just about everything u say in regard to these things... i can't win an argument with someone who pulls stats and evidence out of the air.
isa
--------
Posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:11 a.m., in response to
Re: bleh, posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 3:35 a.m.
Nope you said (in the very first letter I quoted) that people had told you they couldnt keep up ... plain and simple. I'm just curious as to who they are so I can give them the necessary scripting so they can keep up and we can continue a value adding service rather than a splitting one.
As to my stats I offered you proof and even asked you what further proof you wanted ... you never accepted ... I guess because you "fear" the truth.
I still would love to know how you think I survive with the insignificant linking I do have. If what you say is true then I should have disappeared long ago ... but I'm still here ... how? Come on I want to know the answer ... you've accused me of lying ... now tell me how I do it if I'm not telling the truth? Why do I get the stats I do in the CEX ring on my isgnificant pages if the traffic isnt there? These are the things yuo need to answer BEFORE accusing someone of lying.
While I think it's very sad you wish to pull out of the CEX ring ... I had a conversation with someone else in this very thread this morning about seeing how long it would be before you pulled out based on you not needing their traffic anymore and wanting it all to go to your own list ... fair enough too from your perspective I guess ... but amazingly co-incidental to me :) ... If you were honest you would have pulled out of here not the cex ring. I see it as a sympathy ploy ... and something that punishes others for your actions. Bizarre to say the least.
I am not a hacker, I have never hacked a site in my life or broken in to anything at all. I use the same tools in my everyday activities as everyone else here. As for wishing to even out the scores on toplists, that certainly isnt hacking by any stretch of the imagination ... it's a common place business activity of the likes that greedy people initiated but cannot be prevented by anything other than a similar use to even it back out again ... that of course is my opinion and there's not much point in debating the politics of that if we cant even get past the name calling *sigh*
You will see that I stand on record as having produced a large amount of anti-hacking scripting and advice to many of the girls here on it. I constantly provide warnings of the same nature you saw in Moe's memo today. I have worked with other girls here on the scripting that does the very things he suggests (I believe I was the first person here to suggest the random naming system). I have always offered scripting free of charge to anyone that needs help. Yesterday I did just that for Punquin. Come on Isa ... you'll need to do better than that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Kandi on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 11:38 a.m., in response to Re: bleh, posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:11 a.m.
Moe's memo?
I didnt' see the memo...where is it?
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Posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:53 a.m.
dear xan, moes, and the rest of the cex...
i regret to inform u that i am withdrawing my membership to this forum and everything that bernadette is a significant participant of which includes the camgirls exchange linking program. u have all read the posts and so i don't feel it is necessary for me to clarify why. i believe u can all see clearly that my reasons are valid at least from my perspective. i would leave a party or event that bernadette attended therefore i see this forum as being no different. and while i know we have the ability to ban a single site from our cex system, out of principle i refuse to the only girl who has a site banned on her list of cex members.
because i obviously don't want to punish any of u in the process, contact me for a manual link exchange and i will promote your sites directly. also, any of u who would like to communicate with me, simply email me the old fashion way. the camgirlgallery obviously still welcomes all of u and at this point the toplist system has been thrown out because i didn't like the limitations it had and i replaced it with a picpost in a separate section of the gallery. posting pics there is already a very good source of traffic as u will see from the in and out numbers next to the picture links.
yes, this is a protest of principle but know that i don't have a single bad feeling about any of u other than b, but that is enough. i'm taking my ball and going home... if any of u want to play with it, (or me), stop by my site ;)
this will be my last post.
xoxox
isabella
ps... moes, i hate to have to do this, and i hope u don't take it as a message to u in anyway... i think u guys are wonderful and i hope we can work together on things in the future...
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Posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:55 a.m., in response to my withdrawal, posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:53 a.m.
i stand by
isabella
i cannot be in a group where one member is utterly racist against an entire
nation of people. and that nation is even the one where most of the camgirls
are from in this forum. how can i feel safe to post here in the midst on an
obvious racist bully?
not to mention all the other reasons which are obvious if anyone reads what
has been happening here.
it goes against everything this place is supposed to be about.
threatening 2 disrupt my friends isabella's site with unfair scripts.
and many other things. she will most likely post a bunch of rhetoric now and
twist everything around.
i will come back someday if she decides to leave this place or if there is
enough people here who will vote her out of this place.
feel free
to email me at ana101@hotmail.com
or stop by my bbs on my site:
http://www.fetik3.com/bbs/ana.html
i am sorry
2 the moes. i hope u will understand my decision
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Posted by spookyliz on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 2:13 p.m., in response to
my withdrawal, too, posted by ANA on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:55 a.m.
Ok, I am really not sure where to begin. Simply: Ana, do you realize you are being as irrational and emotional as B about this whole thing? You both sound very similar in your posts. I think it's far more constructive to try and fix things than to leave when it gets tough.
regardless, I do think B should be banned for unprovoked attacks and for implied threats... and I'd rather see ana and isa here than her.
*sigh* I like
all the camgirls I have ever talked to quite a bit.
This is all a huge shame to me.
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Posted by Xandria on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:58 p.m., in response to Re:
my withdrawal, too, posted by spookyliz on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 2:13 p.m.
I also agree that if Isabella and Anna withdraw from Girls Only activities, they will have only have given in to such negative emotion inspiring posts.
I am not here to judge. However, such a drastic response as leaving is seemingly irrational. I have always believed that "reactions" should be made when cooler heads prevail.
However, I also understand if I felt unhappy from something, I would likely extricate myself from that which was causing the unhappiness -- but not at the expense of the enjoyment I receive from other aspects.
It is my hope that Isabelle and Anna will rescind their action as I also believe they are a valuable has of the cam girl committee -- especially that aspect which has developed here in The Peeping Moe cam girl only areas.
Xandria
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Posted by Mystrys on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 11:43 p.m., in response to Re:
my withdrawal, too, posted by Xandria on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:58 p.m.
I AM NOT SUGGESTING
THIS FOR THE SITUATION IN QUESTION!!! but.. I was curious Is there a way to
vote on weather or not to Eject someone from the forum..sorta like the approval
process.. or is it once in always in?? Reading all these posts has just made
me curious as to the process involved.. -Mystrys
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Posted by Liz on Thursday, 8 June 2000, at 6:59 p.m., in response to Re: my
withdrawal, too, posted by Xandria on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 6:58 p.m.
Xan,I haven't
posted here in awhile, yet feel that I have to say this to ALL.... Get with
it!!!! This seems like it's the Storm Drain, you know, the one where I promised
B that I'd never post in? Well, guess what... I did and it felt gooood....
I haven't been much of a cam girl (?) But, I am trying to enjoy my life for
a change!!!! The hell with This bickering and such!!! I love ALL of you and
honestly the ONLY ones your hurting is each other... Do you feel better now?
and Moejo & MoeK... Two guys who put this all together at no charge!!!!!!
Liz.
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Posted by OpalCat on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 3:18 p.m., in response to my
withdrawal, posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:53 a.m.
Just FYI...
you wouldn't be the only one. I have a site banned from my CEX (though it
has nothing to do with my feelings for the girl in question)
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Posted by quazi on Thursday, 8 June 2000, at 1:14 p.m., in response to my
withdrawal, posted by isabella on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:53 a.m.
I haven't been around much. In fact I am taking a month off as of the 15th (just need a break, got a new boat..etc..) but I finally just caught up with all the messages I had missed.
The debate doesn't affect me so I have no reason to comment on it.
But when I see posts regarding pulling out and questioning expulsion process I have to question what is going on. (Mystrys I know you were just curious and not suggesting it, this isn't aimed at you:)-it's just a general statement)
In life we run across several people who we may not like, or simply disagree with. To deal, people have one of two options- totally withdrawl from the situation or simply ignore the person in question. If we took the first route, most of us would be hermits without jobs (I'll tell ya, just driving can make me hate other people) Seems to me, the more logical route would be to simply ignore someone if you have a particular problem with them.
On the computer, we have it even easier. We are not face to face, in an actual room with someone. You have the choice on what you chose to read. Either click on the link to a post.. or.... don't.
Please keep in mind that disagreeing with someone is not something that should be punishable. While you may certainly choose not to send traffic to someone, any additional "actions" would be an overreaction. If we all thought the same way, life would be very boring.
I worry about the Queen of Hearts mentality coming into play- "Off with her head" since one does not think as the queen does. So whether or not this disagreement goes any farther, I would like to state that I am against any/all expulsion against B or any other girl that disagrees, states opposing view points etc.
I would also hate to see Isa/Ana leave due to this disagreement. You are both valuable assests and as far as I know, you enjoy what the Moe's have provided here-so why leave it over one person?
Longer than
I had first intended, but my feelings none the less.
My best to all.
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Posted by Venus on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 7:05 a.m.
Wow ... this flared up real quick like...if you sit back and read it it is actually funny that anyone would actually care. Bernadette, If you dont like how someone does something why be a jerk, just move on to something you do like. Some things I have learned from this forum since last year is this. If Bernadette does it its great, if she dont like what your doing or thinks your doing something she dont like she tries her best to start problems. Take last summer, her stepping in and accusing me of crap that wasnt even true and trying to get others against me, I tried a few times to explain the truth but it didnt matter. She has done similar things to others here also, now she is on Isa. I have been running my site as a pay site for 3 yrs now, I dont have any need to have two OC3's, hell I couldnt afford one of them, I did enquire about a DS3 (T3) once, they quoted me $40,000 a month!!! I couldnt imagine what two OC3's would cost a month. as for recycling traffic Vs top lists... this is just my humble observation. lets says, me Isa and Anna all have each others links up, some people would say we are just recycling traffic, but reality is this, all three of us get trafic from each other, that is true, but we also get traffic from other sources, I get traffic from places they dont and they get traffic from places I dont, So, if soeone dont like my site cause I'am not Bernadette then they have to oppurtunity to go to anna's and then from there to Isa's. if they keep following links they will eventually find something they like and buy. Her theory about just being stale traffic is bullshit. some of it is stale yes, but not all of it. as for toplists, I dont participate in them with the exception of top cams because I know for a fact that I get alot of signups from him. So to me that is worth it, If its stale traffic then its awful good stale traffic. Bernadette can write on her site that rebilling is sleazy, do we really care..not really...so why does she have to care how Isa or anyone else runs their sites or goes about getting traffic? Why does she make threats? she made threats against me last summer and now against Isa. I think that anyone here who makes threats against others should be automatically banned from this forum. But thats just my opinion. Moe has the finale word on that. Bernadette can say what she wants, its a free country, why she has to care about someone who is starting to do good tho I dont know. I dont care about her site, I have my own to run. SHe has given no help on how Isa can increase her traffic, she just slams her for doing what she is good at which is wrong. I gave Isa some pointers on how to build traffic and she used it to go from 1200 hits a day to over 12000 hits a day in a few months!!! If your really all that Bernadette why didnt you help her do that with a bernadette acceptable solution? 96% of where ever you did your poll at dont like recurring billing, but I still have several hundred active members from 1997 who do like it very much and get mad when their card expires and their passwords quit working. Yes it is true some people dont like recurring billing, but some do so who the hell are you to try and cut people down for offering it. You may be a hero in your own mind, but not mine. I follow my own rules and do my own thing and I do something that you dont do..I dont try and comepte against others!!!! I dont have to... I dont need to slam others for their advertising techniques, for how they make their site or anything else...I dont care...if they get 900 signups a day so what, it has no effect on me. quit trying to turn people against others because you dont like the competition. thats all it boils down to, you dont like the competition and you dont like others doing good so you try and turn others against them by publicly slamming them. there is no need for it. Anna's observations were correct in your behaviors. You are passive aggressive (and yes its a real disorder and they do have medication for it). Run your own great site bernadette and leave others alone, no one cares about you so dont worry about others. If you have a problem with someone then the acceptable solution is to send them an e-mail, your tactics is only for one reason, to try and turn others against people you find a threat to you. You dont need to reply to me cause I dont care about you or like you or what you try and do to people. People used to listen to you untill they saw what you were doing and what your doing to this board. I still remember you saying a long time ago that you would never be a pay site and slamming on people who were, that you would shut your site down before you started charging, you told alot of people that but look at you now...you attack anyone you feel is a threat to your and your site or who is doing better than you. You say word of mouth is the best kind of traffic, that no other way to advertise is needed. If that was true then pepsi wouldnt spend millions of dollars a year on advertising, yes we all know what a pepsi is so should pepsi just sit back and hope everyone says it tastes great so everyone will come running for it? shit if they followed your business model they could save billions on advertising. I really have to concurr with what anna said earlier in her first post. She was right on the nose.
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Posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 9:16 a.m., in response to
The dispute, posted by Venus on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 7:05 a.m.
lol lol I was waiting for you to add your bit from the very beginning ....
On the OC3's, just pick up the phone and ring the technical contact on my nic details or ask steph who was hosted on the same equipment last year. I don't pay for the machine, but I do pay for the bandwidth. Next question?
I think you
should also look up the definition on passive aggressive ... seems neither
you or ana really bothered to look. Clinically speaking you don't have either
the qualifications or experience or knowledge of me to even remotely come
to that conclusion ... you are, as always, just doing what everyone else has
done and try to find a category to lump someone into in a form of insult ...
I recognise that for what it is :) and it doesnt bug me ... I just like to
keep pushing you to look at the facts rather than speculate ... as it proves
what I was saying about the culture there of lumping people into categories
... I wont dare be politically incorrect and say its American this time, but
another american just did the categorisation/syndrome thing again. You can't
help but laugh :)
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Posted by Venus on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 9:46 p.m., in response to Re:
The dispute, posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 9:16 a.m.
well keep waiting, I will be back in 6 months to say something again if your still around. I never said you were lying about using 2 OC3's did I ? I just said I couldnt afford one. If I would have said you were lying I would have said something to the effect of if your using two oc3's then why was steph on it also...dont you need that bandwith for your huge site? c'mon fess up ...tell us how much YOU pay out of your pocket for bandwith....enquireing minds want to know.
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Posted by spookyliz on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 2:17 p.m., in response to
Re: The dispute, posted by Bernadette on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 9:16 a.m.
To put it
succinctly... Bernadette, you're a real asshole, you know that?
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Posted by KissyFish on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 4:06 p.m., in response to
Re: The dispute, posted by spookyliz on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 2:17 p.m.
i'm sorry, i know i haven't been here that long, and i haven't had a lot of *helpful* things to add to this forum, but i was soooooo excited about joining it ,when before i had my official site, i heard little *leaks* that there was a cam girls only forum for us to help and support eachother.
for the most part, i have seen this be true.
however, EVERY SINGLE TIME i see a post form Bernadette, it's a huge long fight. i believe once, in the middle of some argument, she even said something to the effect of, oh, this isn't even my opinion...i'm just giving the other side of the coin for us to discuss. why? she just likes to stir up trouble.
she's NOT helpful, and she's JUST PLAIN MEAN.
which, of course, is justMY humble opinion.
K
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Posted by persisp on Wednesday, 7 June 2000, at 8:34 p.m., in response to
The dispute, posted by Venus on Tuesday, 6 June 2000, at 7:05 a.m.
Venus said:
"I gave Isa some pointers on how to build traffic and she used it to
go from 1200 hits a day to over 12000 hits a day in a few months!!!"
*psst*
wanna share those hints with me too? :)
persis
=======
Posted by red on Thursday, 8 June 2000, at 2:09 p.m., in response to Re: The
dispute, posted by persisp on Wednesday, 7 June 2000, at 8:34 p.m.
Man, no kidding.
Traffic? What's
that?
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Posted by spookyliz on Thursday, 8 June 2000, at 3:22 p.m., in response to
Re: The dispute, posted by persisp on Wednesday, 7 June 2000, at 8:34 p.m.
Ditto :)
Need more traffic.
-l
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